Visioning with Kyley Paul | E076
Being clear on what it its you want out of life.
On today’s episode, Jason is going to talk to Kyley Paul; a business coach and CEO of coaching with Kyley. In today’s show, they are specifically going to talk about vision planning for business owners and what that means.
Episode Highlights:
01.40: Jason inquires, “What is this abstract concept vision planning in actuality?”
01.50: Kyley has been in business for seven years, building and scaling her businesses from scratch. And on a huge journey of personal and professional development, in line with that, and really go deep into that, she has invested a ton of time. She has read probably closer to 400 books in the last 7 years.
02.10: The message that kind of boils down to out of all the mentors that she had and all the influencers, the books and everything is 3 steps success that she kind of curated from all the knowledge that consumed is - You have to know what you want, you have to know where you are and create a plan to mind the gap. Just like your GPS of life, basically, you have to know where you want to go. Where are you right now and then create the path to get there so.
03.14 Kyley: Vision planning is deciding what it is that you really want in the three domains of life like health, wealth, and love.
04.56: Chaos is a really great word to describe what happens in the home a lot of the time, says Kylie.
06.10 Jason says we are all so busy doing what we are doing today that we never stopped to think necessarily, except in very abstract terms about what the future will look like.
06.40: The three domains of your life are health, wealth, and love. So, in health, there is physical, mental, and spiritual, and in wealth, there is vocational financial legacy and then in love, family, social and fun.
08.29 Kyley suggests visualizing the life you want and planning out what you want to do.
10.40 Jason inquires, “What is the first thing you say that these people have to do? Do you jump right into the components, or is there some kind of easing them into this level of thinking?”
11.20: Asks yourself, “What is most important to you, why you are doing, what you are doing? What areas of your life demonstrate and show that these are important to you and why you are doing them are the top driving forces in life?
14.34: Jason asks, sometimes people have deeper medical issues. How do they tackle those issues?
17.00: Kyley can certainly shift things in a productive direction to even give them an awareness of where they are and then help someone think about what they want to look like in the future.
18.16 Jason says it is so funny that oftentimes people think that the aspirational conversations around retirement are these like big, crazy, outrageous goals when more often than not, it is just like what makes you happy.
20.01: Jason asks, “Talk to me about how you help people center in on what’s important for them in the aspect of love?”
25.07: It is so fun to take things off my own list and do experiences with the kids and get to see their experience with it and let them enjoy and flourish and choose goals for themselves and us to execute on them, says Kyley.
3 Key Points:
Kyley’s company coaching with Kyley is built around vision planning. She has been extremely effective in organization and planning and how that drives her ahead, and it allows her to accomplish her goals and drive forward.
The number one cause of divorce in my practice is emptiness syndrome. When somebody’s identity is wrapped around the need to support someone else, and then that need disappears because of their certain level of maturity, says Jason.
The more activities you have around your driving forces, the more productive you are going to be, the better you will feel about yourself, more confident you are going to be all this stuff because it’s in line with what is most important to you.
Tweetable Quotes:
“You take care of yourself, and it’s funny that you say that.” – Kyley
“In terms of health, wealth, and love, everyone has a component that is going to touch on one of those three.” – Kyley
“Your thoughts will be directly related to your actions, and actions are directly related to your results.” - Kyley
“The reality is that we get used to a certain lifestyle, and it’s nice to think and dream about.” - Jason
Resources Mentioned
Facebook – Jason Pereira’s Facebook
LinkedIn – Jason Pereira’s LinkedIn
Woodgate.com – Sponsor
Transcript:
Producer: Welcome to the Financial Planning for Canadian Business Owners podcast. You will hear about industry insights with award-winning financial planner and entrepreneur, Jason Pereira, through the interviews with different experts with their stories and advice. You will learn how you can navigate the challenges of being an entrepreneur, plan for success, and make the most of your business in life. And now, your host, Jason Pereira.
Jason Pereira: Hello, welcome to Financial Planning for Canadian Business Owners. I'm your host, Jason Pereira. Today, on the show, I have Kyley Paul Kyley is a business coach and CEO of Coaching with Kyley. I brought her on the show specifically to talk about vision planning for business owners and what that means. I'm not going to give it away because she'll get into it right away. And with that, here's my interview with Kyley. Kyley, thanks for taking the time today.
Kyley Paul: Thank you so much for having me, Jason. I'm excited.
Jason Pereira: So Kyley Paul of Coaching with Kyley. How appropriate. Tell us about you and what it is you do.
Kyley Paul: Thank you so much. So I have restructured what I've done, and this is actually my third company, Coaching with Kyley, and it's built around vision planning. And what I have done in my previous two businesses and in my life in general has been extremely effective in organization and planning and how that drives me ahead. And it allows me to accomplish my goals and drive me forward. So that's what I have built this business around. And have also implemented in my other businesses for the last seven years.
Jason Pereira: Okay. So we're going to jump into vision planning, succinctly, and what is this abstract concept of vision planning in action?
Kyley Paul: So I'll take a step back and tell you where it comes from. So like I said, I've been in business for seven years building and scaling my own businesses from scratch, and on a huge journey of personal and professional development in line with that, and really dove deep into that. I've invested a ton of time. I've read probably close to 400 books in the last seven years. And the message that boils down to out of all the mentors that I've had and all the influencers and all the books and everything, the three steps to success that I've curated from all the knowledge that I've consumed is you have to know what you want, you have to know where you are, and create a plan to mine the gap. So just like your GPS of life, basically you have to know where you want to go, where are you right now, and then create the path to get there.
Kyley Paul: So that's what the purpose of vision planning really is, is to get really in tune and clear on what is you want, and this is in business and in life. And for me, I'm a single mom. I own three businesses. Business is life for me. And there's no real separation between the two, how glorious that would be if that were the case. But I laugh at the term work life balance, because for me, I just have a life and I manage everything. So vision planning is about life and business. And for a lot of people, if they don't own their own businesses, that could be life and career, or whatever it is, or managing their life overall. So vision planning is deciding what it is that you really want in the three domains of life. So health, wealth, and love. And then in the wealth category, if you're a business owner, I have a huge structure of how to really get granular about each department of your business, each area of your business, get really clear on what it is you want and then create the plan to get there. So yeah, that's basically what it is in a nutshell.
Jason Pereira: Excellent. So let's jump back there. Work life balance. You may have seen me smugly smile when you said that. It's like, "Yeah, that's a thing." Someone once told me that, "It's not so much balance as a blend. It's a work life blend." And I was like, "You know what? That makes more sense." Because balance almost says that you're isolating the two, when especially if you're a business owner, there is no leaving the job. There never is. It's always on your mind 24/7. And that's just the way it is. You don't have something that you're unaccounted... It's like saying you can leave your child alone. You can leave your child alone without having to worry about them. Yeah. Good luck to you. I mean, unattended.
Kyley Paul: Exactly. I read something, like an article from a top female CEO years ago, and I disagreed with it at the time. And she described it as managing chaos and you shift your focus from one area to the next and you can't have all the balls in the air at once basically. And at the time, I didn't really understand that and was like, "Managing chaos? My life isn't chaotic," and fought against it, but going and learning more, and having more control over all aspects of my life now, it kind of is, and it definitely is at certain times. Your business can be crazy at one time. Your home life is certainly... I have two little boys that are super active. So I mean, chaos is a really great word to describe what happens in the home a lot of the time.
Kyley Paul: So what I like to do is to create those time blocks and manage the time that I have the most effectively as possible so that I can enjoy time to focus on my boys and be present with them when I am actually with them. But no, you're right. And I really do times wish that I could leave the office stuff at the office, but I'm getting better and better as years go on to complete all the tasks. And I plan so far ahead of time too, that I'm actually able to relax and be present with my kids when I have the time to be with them.
Jason Pereira: So before we dive into the specific tasks, let's talk about, in particular, the breakdown of the three that you identified. And maybe actually, before we do that, we'll very quickly talk about how it's interesting because there's an overlap between our businesses, of course. The first things I talk about is, "What are your goals? What is it you want out of life?" And oftentimes, people have never stopped to think about, they've never been asked that, Or they have an abstract version of. It starts off, I always tell them like, "Don't feel bad. The reality is you want to stop working at some point." Yes. Okay. You walk them through like, "What does that future look like?" And because we were all so busy doing what we're doing today that we never stop to think, necessarily, except for in very abstract terms, about what the future's going to look like.
Jason Pereira: And you Yogi Berra saying, which is adept, which is, if you don't know where you're going, you end up somewhere else. And that's the absolute truth. The difference being of course, that you clearly, I mean, this is what your entire value proposition is. You dive into that and help them structure on a much deeper level than I would ever do that. So let's talk about the breakdown, and why these three first off, then we'll dive into everything else one at a time.
Kyley Paul: Yeah. So the three domains of your life are health, wealth and love. So in health, there's physical, mental and spiritual. In wealth, there's financial, vocational, legacy. And then in love, family, social and fun, how you take care of yourself. And funny that you say that, when someone hasn't been asked before what they want and what their goals are, I had never been asked before what I wanted. Before my separation and after I was getting resettled on my own and all this stuff, I had free time that I had never had before when I didn't have my boys at home, and I was confused. I'm like, "What do people do that don't have kids and all this?" I'm like, "I have done everything." And then I had a life coach at the time who legitimately just asked me straight out, like, "What do you want to do?" And I had never been asked that before. So I really had to sit and
Jason Pereira: You're too busy taking care of everybody else.
Kyley Paul: Exactly.
Jason Pereira: Common issue with the caregiver. I see it, especially later on, like when you're taking care of someone who can't take care of themselves, your identity goes away. I will say that I always caution people. The number one cause of divorce in my practice is emptiness syndrome. It's when somebody's identity was wrapped around the need to support someone else. And then that need disappears because they have a certain level of maturity. And now it's like, they have a crisis of self. They have no idea who they are anymore. So it is not a small thing. It is something that we should all be more concerned about, is making sure that we, we know what we want because otherwise, it happens all the time when people retire. They're ready to retire. It's just like, and it hits them. "I have no idea what I'm going to do with all that time."
Kyley Paul: That's the thing. Yeah. And it can seem overwhelming too, when you say it broad spectrum like that, like, "What do you want?" But when you get really specific with your questions, like you said, you guide people and I guide people with the questions that I ask. It's fun, you know what I mean? To actually visualize the life that you want and plan out what the things that you want to do. And I mean, I went on little mini adventures. I took myself around Southwestern Ontario, you know what I mean? And did little things different that I would never would've thought of before, but it can be really fun when you actually get into the practice and open yourself up to thinking creatively like that.
Jason Pereira: Absolutely. So let's go back to the three areas. And I think I can see where you're coming from with this is that you're breaking it down for them to make it easier for them. So you say, "What do you want out of life?" That's a big, broad scoping question. But those three make it a lot more actionable. It's like anything else, you break down a task in the smaller components and it's easily digestible. So talking about how you came to focus on those three and what else you considered along the way?
Kyley Paul: Yeah. So I mean, like I said, I've done a ton of study over the last seven years. A lot of different teachers and influencers have different categories, you know what I mean? Some have nine, some have six, some have whatever. And I broke it down into three with three additional steps to each one because that's digestible. Do you what I mean? If you say to someone, similar to my
Jason Pereira: 20 parameters to think about how you're going to get there.
Kyley Paul: Well, exactly. And my three steps to success. If I said my nine steps to success, I lost them. They're gone. So I make it very digestible. If you say three, it's not intimidating. And people can digest that, and absorb it, and start to wrap their brains around it. So I believe it's a pretty holistic view of every aspect of your life. I mean, you can get even more granular, you can argue certain things. But in terms of health, wealth, and love, everyone has a component that's going to touch on one of those three. And if they want a full and fulfilling life, then in my opinion, they would encompass all of those domains.
Jason Pereira: Absolutely. I mean, I think you've broken it down pretty helpfully. You have, frankly, the three areas that are easily visualized. So, I mean, I think to me it's like, what do you want for your own longevity? What do you want for the lifestyle you want to live? And who do you want to share it with? Is a lot of, I think, the big three. So let's go into each one of those and talk. Well, actually, before we even go there, talk to me about how you start the conversation. So what is the first thing you say that these people have to do? Do you jump right into the components or or is there some easing them into this level of thinking?
Kyley Paul: Yeah. So I have a couple exercises before we even get into the planning on each level. And the first one is what I call the claiming your power questions. So I have a series of eight questions that get someone in tune and lets them sit with themselves for a little bit. You know what I mean? And get honest with themselves about what's important to them. What are their top three driving forces? So the goal of the exercise is to uncover your top three driving forces in your life. What's most important to you, why you're doing what you're doing, what areas of your life demonstrate and show that these are important to you and why you're doing them. So for example, I give the example a couple times, if I were to set a goal, a health goal, a physical goal of running a marathon, you know I mean? And then I closed my eyes and I sat and thought about running a marathon.
Kyley Paul: I would have a negative body reaction, let's say. A negative... My shoulders would tense up. I would have a scrunchy face. And then I would know this is not in line with one of my internal driving forces. This is not important to me. If you're going to set that type of goal and have that type of body reaction, you're not going to do it. That's the thing, it's not going to happen. You're never going to run that marathon because it's not important to you. But if I think about working out with my trainer, or playing sports with the kids, or going on a kayak with the kids, you know what I mean? Something like that. And I sit close my eyes and think about it, I'll have a positive reaction. I'll smile naturally. You know what I mean?
Kyley Paul: I'll have more positive reaction and I'll know that that's aligned with what's one of my driving forces, and I'll actually do the actions that are needed to create the result that I want. So the goal of the claim your power questions is to discover those. So you're going to have three, ideally, that you can focus on. And then when you're doing your vision planning, you keep those in mind. And the more activities that you have around your driving forces, the more productive you're going to be, the better you're going to feel about yourself, the more confident you're going to be, all this stuff, because it's in line with what's most important to you.
Jason Pereira: Excellent. So let's talk about breaking down how you break down each of those three. So start with the health piece. How do you break down the three? What are the takeaways that most people come away with, and how do they action that?
Kyley Paul: Yeah. So I work from a backwards model when we get into the planning. So first, we go through health goals, physical, mental, and spiritual. So I have them write down and think about a year ahead of time. So my favorite activity to give to people is have them set the date for one year to the date from today, whenever that is, and think of your ideal life. The best possible life you could have one year away from today, and just free journal and make sure that they hit on all of those categories, health, wealth, and love.
Kyley Paul: And sometimes, there'll be a physical goal, let's say, and maybe not a spiritual one. And then we'll work on that in their journal exercise or how they're thinking. And I also have a series of guided questions to ask, like, "In your best version of yourself, what do you look like? How do you feel? What is your energy level? What is your mindset practice? Do you have one? What is your spiritual practice? Do you have one?" And those things will bubble to the top what's most important to them. And if it's not a driving force for them, then we don't focus on it. But I will ask more specific questions along the way to see and probe a little bit to see if there is something there that they want to work on.
Jason Pereira: So what are we talking about here? Are we talking about, they recognize that they're out of shape or they're not taking care of themselves to the degree that they want to and you action that? And typically, beyond just the actual motivation to start working out, is there, sometimes they have deeper medical issues. How do they tackle those issues?
Kyley Paul: Yeah, that's a great question. And so honestly, I haven't encountered that specific circumstance yet, but that could definitely be a possibility. And then we would seek a health care practitioner if that was appropriate for the certain action. But the next step is typically to look at their mindset around it. So we discovered what they want, and now where are you? So they have to get honest with where they're currently at and take accountability and responsibility for that. And then look at their thoughts around where they're at, because your thoughts will be directly related to your actions, which are directly related to your results.
Kyley Paul: So what thoughts are you having around your body right now, or your energy levels, or your health, and how is that contributing to your actions? If you have all negative thoughts and all destructive mindset around your physical appearance or your physical state, then that's contributing directly to your actions. So how do we shift your destructive mindset around your current physical state, into a neutral or productive one, wherever they're at? Some people are pretty far gone and can only commit to getting to neutral, then that's the starting point. And we just work from there, and then the actions will follow and then the results will follow. And as they see their actions and the results shifting, that's when the there's more commitment to it, and they have that buy-in and they can they're ready for the next step.
Jason Pereira: Okay. So that's the health, let's talk about the wealth side, how and to what degree do you get involved in this?
Kyley Paul: I will get as involved as I need as I need to get. And I mean, I've been through this process too. Like I said, I own three businesses. I've had to get control and regain control of my own finances, and cashflow, and recording, and accounting and all that stuff, so I've been through it. And I think that also gives a little bit of level of trust to who I'm working with, and the fact that I'm able to be honest about things that I've gone through, and things I wish that I had rectified sooner or gone through sooner, you know what I mean? And they have that trust with me and can work with me. But yeah, so occasionally we talk about career, and goals, and achievement and things like that.
Kyley Paul: And then financial. Yeah. Bank account. What are your financial goals? Where do you want to go? What type of lifestyles do you want? I'm not at the same level of you for financial planning and expertise, but I can certainly shift things in a productive direction to even give them awareness of where they currently are at and then help someone think about what they want to look like in the future. You know what I mean? And what their ideal lifestyle costs are entails. And often, it's funny, because I'm sure you've been through certain exercises with people too. And people will probably think their absolute, most extravagant lifestyle will cost millions of dollars a year and all this stuff. And when they actually write it down and take the time to go as extravagant as they can possibly imagine, they'll probably realize that it's not even close to that.
Jason Pereira: So that's not what they want. That's the reality of it.
Kyley Paul: Absolutely.
Jason Pereira: It's people's vision of it. The reality is that we get used to a certain lifestyle, the vast majority of us. And it's nice to think and dream about like, "Oh, I would really like to do all this." Or, people have said to me, "In retirement, I really want to travel all the time." It's like, "Okay. So where do you want to go? Okay, great. How much traveling you done before that?""Oh, I never go anywhere.""Okay. So you're telling me, you want to go from zero per year to putting up with airports six times a year. Maybe you should try a couple, see how you like this." And next thing you know, it's like, "Yeah, I don't need to go that much." You settle into what you know.
Jason Pereira: So it's just so funny that oftentimes, people think that the aspirational conversations around retirement are these big, crazy, outrageous goals, when more often than not, it's just "What makes you happy? Just give me that. And let's work on that." And that becomes so much more attainable and takes so much pressure off them mentally that they don't have to go to that, to the lengths that they think they would need to ever get there.
Kyley Paul: Well, and that's the thing. And they just don't bring that awareness to themselves and they don't take the time to really think about what they want. And that's why I said, I do the claim your power questions first to really get to them and see what is important to you? What is your driving forces? Because if travel, and new experiences, and luxury or whatever aren't revealed through those questions, then probably not something that they're going to focus on and be driven to do.
Jason Pereira: Absolutely. So, okay. That's the wealth side, helping them realize what's realistic and what's [inaudible 00:19:12] realistic, but what's necessary to them, which is just such a goal-based skill that most people don't get. They think it's always about this big aspiration. Let's talk about the love aspects. So to me, this is the who. So talk to me about how you help them center in on what's important to them and the aspect of love.
Kyley Paul: So we have family social and fun. And so family are your relationships with your spouse or your significant other, your kids, all your family members. Social is your friends and your professional network, your community. If you want to improve that, if you're happy with where it's at. And COVID was a great litmus test, I think, for the majority of people of what is really important to them and do they enjoy their social activities as much as they thought they did, or if they want more or less. So right now is actually a really great time to reveal that in a lot of people, because we've had a year and a half of different levels of isolation and regulations and all of that. So what did you like about it? What did you hate about it? And what do you want to change?
Kyley Paul: And then fun is asking yourself, "What do you want to do?" Like we talked about, touched on earlier, what is important to you? What lights you up? What makes you excited? What inspires you that you want to do? So for example, it could be just having quiet time. For some mom and dads out there, I'm sure that's super important and they don't prioritize that in their lives.
Jason Pereira: Prioritizing quiet time.
Kyley Paul: Yeah, absolutely. Getting some peace and quiet where you think you might have gone deaf because the kids aren't in the house. Those are great times. We can't overestimate that. And it can be as simple as that, just having some quiet time to yourself. But actually asking yourself the question of what do you want to do and make sure it's aligned with what's most important to you and then making a plan to do it.
Kyley Paul: So for me, I write out what I want to accomplish in the year, like activities and experiences that I want to have for the whole year. And then I will literally mark it down in my calendar because I know my schedule and I know what weeks I have the kids and what ones I don't. And some of them are activities with the kids and some of them are activities by myself. And I write them in the calendar and then I do them, because if I didn't make that time to write them down and then actually put a date to it, something would come up. You know that as a business owner.
Jason Pereira: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Kyley Paul: No question. Something will come up and I will not do it.
Jason Pereira: If it's not on the calendar, forget it. It just doesn't exist, quite honestly.
Kyley Paul: Yeah, exactly. So that is a really fun thing. And it's something that, I mean, the majority of people don't don't do. And I'm actually astonished the more people that I talk to. And like you said, everyone's just floating along happy with status quo, settled into their life. And haven't even thought about taking control over planning, what
Jason Pereira: There's enough cognitive burden put on us by the universe that I don't fault anyone. Just even making sure you pay your bills, get home every day and deal with your family. I mean, anyone who's got kids knows that part about the family part. There's so much, it's always interesting to talk to young people who they all seem to think they're going to be billionaires. And it's like, "Really?" If it was that easy, then we wouldn't have a list of them. That's all I'm going to tell you. If it wasn't that exceptional, we wouldn't publish a list of them because it just be everybody. And the reality is life gets in the way and life gets in the way of, you may think, especially, when you step into places, "Well, this is inefficient. [inaudible 00:22:37] is not doing optimal thing here." That's fine.
Jason Pereira: That's because they've got a bunch of other things they got to worry about and they don't have time for optimal, but it doesn't mean it's not a valuable exercise. And it doesn't mean if you do take that time, you're not going to benefit from it dramatically. So we talked about the process. Talk about the end result. I mean, this has got to be the reason you do this, because otherwise, what's the point? You must take great satisfaction from watching these people flourish. So talk to me about your success stories, people you turned around.
Kyley Paul: Yeah. Absolutely. And it's so fun. Even for me, taking things off my own list, and doing experiences with the kids and getting to see their experience with it and letting them enjoy and flourish and choose goals for themselves and us to execute on them. But absolutely. So I work with different all kinds of businesses, different spectrum. So in the past couple months, I've worked with a couple new businesses that even just allowing them and giving them the permission, almost, to write things down, and to think outside the box, and to take planning time seems to take an enormous burden off of their shoulders, and to emphasize the importance of planning as a business owner. A lot of new business owners, and I mean, I was guilty of this in the beginning too, get stuck in the operational activities, and I call it the hamster wheel of actions. But they don't have a plan to move them forward.
Kyley Paul: So if they're just in the hamster wheel and doing actions, actions, actions, actions, then they're not seeing the results they want to see because they don't have that plan to move them forward. So I mean, a couple of them made their plans and sent them to me. They were so excited to go through the workbooks and set the plans. And then I've seen some of them, which is really gratifying, like post on their Instagram Stories and stuff of them going outside for a walk. You know what I mean? And taking time for themselves and making sure that that was a priority. And they were prioritizing themselves in that shifting their focus. One of my clients was really concerned on one of the products that she was doing. And I told her, I'm like, "You have put in so much time that you are losing money on this product now because you haven't accounted for the preparation time and the delivery and the backend stuff and all of this."
Kyley Paul: So just reinstating and letting them know their worth. And that their worth in the preparation time is the same as their worth in the execution of the program, and to make sure that they're thinking about that and managing that for themselves, that's really fun. And I just finished actually a summer company cohort with a small business center. And that's high school and university students. And allowing and giving them the permission to think outside the box, and telling them that they're worthy to charge more than $5 for their services and things like that, was really fun. And seeing them shift.
Kyley Paul: And a couple of them of them at the end, the last week, who were legitimately really confused and struggling with the whole entrepreneur thing, had clicked, had had that click in and got to the place where they were reinspired with what they were doing and were able to share that. And I mean, you can see the change on their faces too, that they have actually enjoyed it now. And they get it, and they're reinvigorated to continue and they realize why they started it in the first place. So that's really fun. But so I mean, I'm glad I'm able to contribute in that way, but seeing the effects of the social programming on that age group was a little sad, honestly. But we'll see. Hopefully, they have some valuable lessons that they can continue utilizing.
Jason Pereira: Absolutely. Anyway, Kyley, this has been great. Thank you very much for taking the time. I think it's a very, very important exercise for all of us to sit back and make sure we understand what it is we actually want out of life. So visioning, especially, I would say, I can see the need for coaching on this in particular, when you are in a high stress entrepreneurial position, it's one of those things that will fall by the wayside if you don't get serious about it and have someone like you guide you through it. So thank you very much for taking time to walk us through it.
Kyley Paul: I appreciate the time, Jason, thank you so much.
Jason Pereira: That was my interview with Kyley about visioning. I hope you enjoyed that. And as always, if you enjoyed this podcast, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, SoundCloud, Spotify, or wherever it is at your podcast. Until next time, take care.
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