The Seven Stages Of Planning with Kam Chari | E060
How planning needs change over your life.
In this episode of Financial Planning for Canadian Business Owners, Jason Pereira, award-winning financial planner, university lecturer, and writer, interviews Kam Chari. He has 40 years of experience in major insurance companies.
Episode Highlights:
01.21 – Kam introduces his profile. He talks about his experience in Financial and Tax Planning.
02:41 – Kam talks about his book Seven Stages Of Planning. He utilized the time during COVID and jotted down his thoughts.
05:32 – He took Shakespeare's book The Seven Ages Of Man as a base and wrote the book. To make the reading enjoyable, he incorporated a similar though process.
06:00 – The first stage is basically about parents who will have to act on behalf of their children. He talks about the apparent education saving plan but apart from what other financial planning parents can do?
06:50 – He talks about the attribution rule, which means the person who gifted the money will have to pay the tax.
07:35 – He adds parents must think about life insurance. It is a saving vehicle.
08:07 – He also stresses that it helps to have a critical illness plan. His book has all the details.
08:52 – Jason agrees with the attribution plan and cash-rich insurance policy. He can have a ton of money in insurance and then later transfer it to his child. This policy helps in financial planning.
09:56 – Jason points The Second Stage is more for the GenX people – the teenagers
11:15 – Kam explains the benefits of financial planning from such an early stage.
13:17 – Jason points out that the next stage is for the 30+ crowd. He inquired, "What are the key areas they should look for?"
14:02 – Kam shares, "It will be much safer to buy Personal Life Insurance to protect the mortgage insurance. This is one of the techniques that is suggested in the book."
15:00 – Jason shares Stage 5, and 6 covers a wide range of 45 to 74 years old.
16:55 – Kam stresses that planning is essential, younger people should start planning for retirement.
17:5 – When it comes to Stage 7, Kam emphasis Lot of planning has to be done when it comes to retirement.
23:45 – Jason appreciates several discussions on planning stages but not much on products. It is good that Kam's book addresses that.
24:40 – Kam agrees and says that holistic planning is crucial.
3 Key Points:
Jason and Kam discuss the importance of insurance plans, cash-rich policies, and retirement plans, basically helping people become financially secure.
Some of the book's plans do not necessarily mean that it is valid for that particular age group. One can apply in multiple stages.
Kam talks about "When to take Canada pension plan and old age security?"
Tweetable Quotes:
"Wills and power of attorney is essential to update it and make sure it goes to the right hand." - Kam Chari
"The earlier the planning for retirement start, the better it is" - Kam Chari
"There are different life stages where different things are coming to play." - Jason Pereira
Resources Mentioned:
Kam Chari: https://www.ansafinancialsolutions.com/bookinfo.html
E-mail: kam@ansafinancialsolutions.com
Transcript:
Producer: Welcome to the Financial Planning for Canadian Business Owners Podcast. You will hear about industry insights with award-winning financial planner and entrepreneur, Jason Pereira, through the interviews with different experts, with their stories and advice. You will learn how you can navigate the challenges of being an entrepreneur, plan for success and make the most of your business and life. And now your host, Jason Pereira.
Jason Pereira: Well, Welcome. [inaudible 00:00:36] Kam Chari, all through the book, The Seven Stages of Planning, A Financial Tale. And I brought him on the show to talk about really kind of the book itself. It really paints a picture of how different financial products, different needs arise at different stages of life and examines each different stage of life. So I probably should have give you that and just give you some background. Cam has been in the industry for over 40 years. He's now retired and still involved through the authoring, but he's worked at major insurance companies throughout his career and has a background as an MBA, CPA, CFP, RP and TP. So not quite as many acronyms as I have, but he's got a lot of them already. And one other thing, if you hear any interruptions, my children are currently taking remote kindergarten in the same room as me. So this is what COVID is like. With that, here's my interview with Kam. Kam, thanks for taking time today.
Kam Chari: My pleasure, really. Thank you for inviting me, Jason, today for this podcast. I appreciate it.
Jason Pereira: My pleasure. So Kam, tell us a little bit about you and what you did in your past life and what you're doing now.
Kam Chari: I think you have done a good job of telling my background. I started in the industry 1975. I think it goes a long time back. I think in the previous stone age, I think I started, but anyway, I had been through various things, but basically with the financial service industry with Sun Life and his predecessors, and I have been a tax consultant for a while, I have been a financial planner. They call it estate planner those days. And then later I was strictly involved in doing financial planning for advisors of Mutual Life, Clinica and Sun Life. I was a regional manager in [inaudible 00:02:07] for over 20 years that I was, I had a group of planners who went out with advisors and provided financial planning. So I have a wide background in financial planning. I've met thousands of Canadian clients and help them do their financial plan. So that gives you a brief summary, other than my education [crosstalk 00:02:26]
Jason Pereira: In your retirement, you decided that you needed more work. So you basically decide to pen a book, The Seven Stages of Planning, A Financial Tale. Tell us about what the motivation was for that.
Kam Chari: Yeah, that's another story. Basically, I didn't have any intention because I am, as I told you I worked with a lot of Canadians. I have done different scenarios. And then, I don't that you know Tom Deans. Tom Deans has written two bestselling books, Everybody's Business and I think it's called Willing Wisdom. So he's the one who was kind of my mentor. He said, "Cam with your background, you should write a book on financial planning". So once I retired, I was really bored and then my wife said "don't bug me". So I said, okay, let me put my thoughts into paper. That was easier said than done. But anyway, I did that for, and of course fortunately COVID came in, that means that I could not go out and do other things. So I think maybe I should do this project.
Kam Chari: So I started and then it took a life of its own. It took me about eight to nine months to get the book and a very rough draft done. After that, Tom suggested that I go to a good editor to get the book edited, which was the best I could have. I wish sometimes the best I could have done because the editor showed me. I thought I wrote a great book, but the editor pointed out a lot of things that what people want to read. So she did a great job of editing. Once that was done, as I said, it was, it became a long project. Finally, the baby was born if you will.
Jason Pereira: Excellent. Yeah. So Tom is a friend of the show and a friend in general, and he's been asking me to write a book for a while. If I ever have the time, I will contemplate it. Okay.
Kam Chari: Yeah. I doubt with what you're doing, Jason. I know you're a busy person. It sounds easier than getting it done. It's the writing part is probably easy, but the other part is the one, editing and publishing that's the part that's going to [crosstalk 00:04:25].
Jason Pereira: Yes, absolutely. So in your book, you break down kind of seven key life stages and you go from infancy to schoolboy, or schoolchild, you have what you call the lover she's amusing. It's the 18 to 29 year olds. We'll call it early adulthood, the soldier, the one who's basically got to actually just start marshaling on with life. The justice, you could explain that one later, the platoons and the old age. So we go all the way from birth to over 75. And I want to go through each stage with you and talk about what the general problems are or challenges are for those groups and what the opportunities are.
Jason Pereira: And of course, when we're talking about the first two and we're talking about infancy and children, we're not talking about them acting upon it, we're talking about their parents acting upon it. So let's start with the first one, the first stage, which is the infant stage. So we're talking about kids from zero and then the second stage, being schoolboys, schoolgirls stage. So zero to 17. Okay. But we're talking about planning for children. What are the challenges or things we need to look at in this stage?
Kam Chari: Good question. Before that, I just want to set the stage. I had ordered this way because planning generally is boring as you know, people to read it. But I took Shakespeare Seven Stages of Man, which is kind of a person that it's like an allegory there, so I used that as a basis, but the seven stages does not mean that the planning is applied when at one stage, when it applies at different stages. But for people to understand that there's a unique planning in each stage, I wrote it that way. So I just want to set the stage. Going back to stage one, basically as most of you know, you're correct. It's the parents who will have to act on behalf of the child or children. So the obvious one is an RESP, Registered Education Savings Plan, which as advisors, we always recommend, the child should have one because of the government grant, $2,500. And they put it in there. The government, it gives you a 20% grant on that. And if you have multiple children, you can have one for each. So, that's an easy one.
Kam Chari: Most advisors know that, but some of the other things is when you, people give gifts, cash gifts to children, and then they want to invest the money. That could be some traps investing the money because as you know, the Income Tax Act has some provisions that if you set up money, let's say the industry leading investment type of money on behalf of a child, there is a rule called the Attribution Rule. I don't want to be technical, but that rule basically [crosstalk 00:06:53]. Basically, if there's an Attribution rule, which means that the person who gifted the money will have to pay the tax. So you have to be careful. And the second problem also is that you have to set up an informal trust, as you said, that child or the children cannot own the contract for the parent will have to all the money in trust that itself is not a problem.
Kam Chari: But what that means is at the age of 18, the child will have to give the money to [inaudible 00:07:19]. Once it is divided, it's their money. The parents cannot be paid beyond that. And that's sometimes the parent may not want to do that. It may be for post-secondary education and things like that. So I can go on. The third one is generally people don't think about it is life insurance. You say " what? Life insurance is for a young child." It's not to benefit from that. It is a used as a savings vehicles. Save it. Life insurance is one of the few investments where you can put money in it and then be any income earned on that is not taxed. It's tax sheltered, provided, which states within the CRA limits, it's called an exempt policy. So there is quite a bit of room there that you can put money in it and then do that.
Kam Chari: So that's another thing which they can use. And the other one, they can use a Critical Illness Plan. For example, people don't think about a critical illness for a young child, but with a lot of the childhood illnesses and what's been happening, it may be appropriate in some circumstances to have critical illness plan. So there are various things. These are some of the issues that the book goes through. What I've done is I've taken a couple of people that apply called Anderson family. The couple of people in the Anderson family have provided the solutions. So if you go through the book, you will see all of these things, basically.
Jason Pereira: I want to highlight a couple of things. Yeah. Attribution rules. Yes. You got to be very careful in putting money in the hands of minors, both from a control standpoint, which to me is the biggest part and a tax standpoint. The second piece is the insurance thing I want to point out is that a cash rich insurance policy is a unique asset in Canadian tax law. In that it is the only asset that I know of and correct me if I'm wrong, that you can actually pass down generation to generation down the line that does not trigger tax. So I can have a ton of money in a insurance policy that is on the life of my child. And if I was the cash in that policy, if I was the basically get rid of that policy, I would have a tax bill, but I can transfer that policy without taxation, the ownership of that policy to my child when they're an adult. And there's no disposition at the time. So I don't know if anything else in Canadian tax law that permits that.
Kam Chari: You're right. That's the reason we set it up. And also when, you're right, and if the child leaves the money for education, they can borrow from the policy because it's like a loan. Generally the interest on the loan on a life insurance policy is much lower than the commercial interest rate. That's another advantage. So you're right. So life insurance, it's often not understood, yes, and I think it's a great way of putting money away. Also some of the things for, so there is a lot of planning you can do for a young child if you want. So it's not a problem.
Jason Pereira: Let's move on to the second stage. Second stage is the more adult stage for the Gen X finds themselves. So we're looking at them, the millennials that is. So we're looking at the 18 to 29. So young adult stage, what kind of planning do you, people in that age bracket typically like to do?
Kam Chari: A lot of things you can do again, it all depends on their stage of life they are. And if they are, let's say they're dating someone or they're married or if they're already married. You were talking about a range from 18 to 29 and maybe at 23, 24 they may be married, they could even have a family at that point. And if they do have one, they want to buy a house, they may have put some money on an RS. [inaudible 00:10:30] husband and wife, both of them may have money in an RSP accumulated. So basically they want to buy a house. One of the things that often comes up is can they use the RSP money as you know? Yeah. There is a provision in the income tax side called the Homeowners Ownership Savings Plan, that they can use up to $35,000 of the RSP money as a down payment for a purchase of the home.
Kam Chari: It that's husband and wife, then you can double it up to $70,000. So that's a big advantage, and that has to be paid back, of course, but they give you two years, at the end of two years, you can pay back in 10 instalments. So, that's a great arrangement. A lot of young families should use it, but of course they have to buy in the RSP, but quite a few of them will have when they want to buy a house at that stage. And another thing is if they have a young family, the obvious one, which a lot of people may know is they should make sure that they have life insurance. Both of them, the husband and wife, which would have life insurance. In this case, we talked about before of a cash rich life insurance plan. Here we are talking about maybe because their cashflow may not be that much because they are just joined a job.
Kam Chari: They may be using all that money for their livelihood. So basically if you're not hesitate to give them the best term plan available in the market and then give them maximum coverage, even a million dollars at the age of 20, 21 could only be about 25, $30 a month because they need that kind of a coverage because one of them passes away. They're going to leave a big liability to the other. Especially they're buy a house and have the mortgage. So life insurance is that, it's one of the basic needs. At that point, I would say for both husband and wife, and then of course, if they have savings, the other one is putting money in a RSP, which is obvious if it depends on their tax bracket. Certainly, put money in an RSP, it does two things. It sets them up for the future retirement. And secondly, it also lowers attacks.
Kam Chari: And then at the other thing, which is now come in as a tax-free savings account, EFSA is another vehicle, which they can use depending on the circumstances. So that way, when I do a plan, I look at their objectives and what they've got the cashflow and things like that. And then I would recommend one of these solutions at that point. The other one of course I can keep on going is critical illness. And of course, personal disability plan is the other two.
Jason Pereira: But at this point. I mean, what we're really looking at is looking at establishment, right? We're looking at protecting their future, their future income potential. So there are the human capital we're looking at potentially more robust income splitting strategies with their parents. And we're looking at setting themselves up for, I'd say retirement is a secondary concern. It's more so savings, period altogether. Okay. So then we move on to the 30 to 44 bracket. So this is the mature adults, Gen X, or as you originally termed them, the what was it? It was the soldiers. So yeah, they're marshaling on, this is where I say, this is the more conventional bracket when people start to seek out advice, right?
Jason Pereira: So this is what everybody's probably used to. It's like, "Hey, I need to pay down my mortgage. I need to deal with my retirement savings. I need insurance." They've woken up to all of this. They probably have kids at that point. So this is a more conventional and we don't have to spend a lot of time here. But besides what I just mentioned, what other kind of other key areas would you say need to be looked at this stage?
Kam Chari: One of the things that come across Jason, you may have also. People may, at this stage, they may have moved up to a bigger house. They may have a larger, a bigger mortgage on the house. And then the mortgage insurance, they may sometimes consider the bank provides mortgage insurance, buying car, who the supplier is, mortgage insurance is fine. It will pay off the mortgage. All right. But basically that, what are talking about is that decreasing the mortgage. In many cases, it may be much cheaper and have much better control for them to buy personal life insurance, to protect the mortgage. IT can be a decreasing term, but in many cases they say that why don't you buy a level term insurance so that the mortgage decreases, the insurance does not decrease. And if in the event, if they pass away, then the money will be there to pay off the mortgage and the balance can be used to the family.
Kam Chari: This is one of the techniques we have suggested and a lot of clients, but Hey, that's a great idea because in terms of cost, if you look at the non-coverage and personal coverage, it's not too much difference. So, that's one of the things you can do. And the other thing, other things are obvious, like accumulating on a DFSA RSP, but one thing people generally forget, they don't do it and we know that is wills and power of attorney. Wills, they may have drafted a will when they are young. It may be one of them, they got it from a supermarket or whatever. That could be a form when they are traveling away. At this stage of life, you have accumulated assets since they have accumulated these assets, it's to make, want to make sure that it goes to the right people.
Kam Chari: So it is very important. First of all, many Canadians, they don't have wills. They have the wills, it's far outdated. So it's really important for them to review the wills and make sure it does the things they want it to be done. And I think that's a very important thing at this stage. I found, we asked them on the power of attorney, too. Those are the two other things at this stage we need to look at. Other thing is, I mean, the obvious ones like critical illness, long-term care also sometimes comes into this stage. I didn't put it in this stage in my book, but that some of these planning items does not necessarily fit into one stage Jason. It can go into multiple stages for the sake of explaining. I put them in different stages, but they can apply in multiple stages, that's all I wanted to mention.
Jason Pereira: Okay. So then we're onto the next stage, which is basically we're into the Boomers who you also affectionately titled the, I have explained this one, stage six, stage five and six are the justice and the platooners, platoons. Okay. So you'll have to tell me what the story is here. So you're talking about 45 to 74 years old. So these are the people that are, yeah, wide range. But we're talking about mature, we're not talking about them having their first children. In most cases, at this point, we're talking about them having children that are at some stage of maturity, of not fully mature. And then they see at that age, they can actually start to see the finish line of retirement coming up on them. Right? Whether they want to believe freedom 55 as a possibility or not. That's a secondary story altogether, but essentially they will, they basically can see the finish line. And then they cross the finish line, not the finish line, the intermittent finish line that is retirement and continue on. So talk to me about the planning strategies around there that are most often fit.
Kam Chari: Yeah. It's very interesting. You mentioned all of this, sometimes people at the age of 55, I think you mentioned this before, they will come and say, " Hey Kam, I wanted to retire in five years." So I asked him, "what do you have?", they have a [inaudible 00:17:09] RSP. The company may not have a pension plan. They may have a big, huge house, but they haven't planned anything. So planning is important maybe as early as age 45, if they are planning to retire, like freedom 55 you mentioned, it's a good objective or they can go to 60, 65, this is the time the younger they are planned for the time. And it's really plan for the time. And when people start working, that's one of the things I always say to clients. That's one of the reasons I wrote the book.
Kam Chari: And in fact, a lot of these advisors are giving it to the youngsters for them to understand that planning is all about. But I think the time and planning is one of the important things here. The other thing that often comes up also, is to, when to take Canada Pension Plan and all the security, you may have also come across a GSN. In fact, it's one of our members here, David Field, who also worked with me has put up a very good stuff on the internet where you can go and say, look what the ideal age to do the Canada Pension Plan because Canada Pension Plan can be taken as early as age 60, or you can defer it as late as age 70. There are pros and cons to that. If you take it early, there is a penalty. But if you could leave it later, there is, they give you more money.
Kam Chari: So basically you have to decide when you want to take it. It depends on so many factors, like how many of RSPs they have, how much income they need at retirement and all those factors. But people's immediate instinct is to take care of pension plan when it's available. They retire at age 60. They want to take it at that point, it may not be a good idea because one of the things also they have to look at is what securities is usually paid at age 65. You can definitely [inaudible 00:18:55] 70. But there is also a feature in all the security is called Claw back, which means if your income exceeds a particular limit there could be a claw back. So sometimes we come up with strategies that they can take more money out of their RSPs earlier so that they reduce the RSPs so that the claw back or the tax back of the audit security start happen.
Kam Chari: So there are a lot of planning to be done at the stage earlier to start its better, but it's a great way of making sure that they have. And also I would use annuities, even though annuities sounds sexy now because of the interest rate, annuities have a really a place in any financial planning. Especially, I have come across situations that a person, I had a $400,000 leader in a case, I put it in my book. That example that'd be suggested, as you know that case the leader money could be transferred out to the pension money, sorry, pension money going into the leader, take 50% of that out, unlock 50% of the leader. So they took 200,000 of that. And then they bought an annuity out of it. And then they deferred the other $200,000 for later.
Kam Chari: So you can do those kinds of planning, all depends on the circumstance. So there's a lot of planning to be done. It's start as early as age 45. And then if it comes to 60, sometimes it could be late, but still you can do some planning at that stage. So I can keep going, really. And also some people, businesses, then Jason, I can talk for an hour in this area, business data, businesses that they take out dividends, salary, I mixed it up. So those are the kinds of things also comes in many cases.
Jason Pereira: So moving on, we're going to get to the end of the sound generation of the people in the Twilight years, the old age, people over 75, hopefully living long, robust years. Prince Phillips just died this morning at the time was recording, age 99, ironically, as a member of the Commonwealth, if he had made it to 100, he would have received the letter from the Queen. So I wouldn't even be, this is this right, but that's that. So the last one, so talk about planning here. What kind of planning solutions would typically be looked at here?
Kam Chari: In this case, again, I have not done planning for a lot of people in this stage, but there are some patterns, especially when we do work for their children, they will bring in their parents and say that, look, they want to do the, it's usually estate transfer, really. Those are the cases that are comes in most cases, it's updating, making sure that the wills, power of attorney and the executors. One of the things we are often faced is appointment of executives. In many cases, people think if you're appointed as an executor, it's a privilege. It is not right now, as you probably know.
Jason Pereira: No, we've covered that on this podcast on several occasions. The only right answer when someone says to you, my executor is no. If you can get away with it, if you can't get away with it, then just take a deep breath and make sure they're organized.
Kam Chari: Exactly. And that's the point of many cases, the responsibilities of being an executor and what are the duties. And I put it in the book. So some of the things you should consider being an executor and it's like a trustee. So they have the same responsibility. They could be held liable. They have to file tax returns. They have to do all sorts of things. So those are the things just comes up. In a couple of cases, you may think it's funny, they even able to buy life insurance for them, their last to die life insurance, they have a husband [crosstalk 00:22:11], the wife was little bit younger, the husband was 75, 76, the wife was 69. And then they had quite a few of assets there and they want to make sure that pass onto the children without much tax.
Kam Chari: So we had a joint [inaudible 00:22:27] type of life insurance. We take the couple of ages, 75 and 69. It comes down to something like 64 or 65 from an actuarial point of view. So the cost is something like a 63 year old buying life insurance. The last person dies. So in that case, they said, "Hey, that's much cheaper than the amount of tax I have to be based on that life expectancy." So that is another thing which we can do. Also one of the things I don't want to forget is charitable contributions. Some of them want to make time to make charitable contributions. As you know, there are many ways of making charitable contributions. They can pay a life insurance premium, or they can just transfer money to a charity and get a tax reduction or at the time of that they can transfer assets to the charity and then they can get a tax break at that point of view. So there are various things, and that is one thing which also comes up in many cases.
Jason Pereira: So, we just covered a lot of ground really quickly. At the end of the day, I think what we're trying to, the reason I really brought you on was to say, "Hey, there absolutely are different life stages that basically different things come into play." And I think on the show I to a fault, pull back a lot and focus on the planning situation and don't talk enough about product. I think having you on was my way of making sure the product was brought into the discussion for different planning stages. So that was good. I think it was a great summary of basically, "Hey, if you're at this area, this is a checklist almost, this is a checklist for, have you looked at these areas of your life? Have you looked at these types of products that might service you."
Jason Pereira: But I think maybe what was not explained enough in the conversation was, all this should be handled in the framework of a full plan. All that should be handled in the framework of not just individual solutions, but what are, who are you? What is going on in your life? Where are you employed? What is your situation? And these are the things we have to concern ourselves with. Yes. But what is the full picture look like? And what's the best strategy for getting you there. And that's where the industry falls down a lot is that we have these products that fill these solutions and we go sell the product because we're swinging hammers, right? When really a solution in order to truly figure out what the solution is, you have to figure out what the problem is. And the only way to figure out what the problem is, is by doing the full planning for that.
Kam Chari: Okay. That's why I wanted to explain something. Basically the reason I wrote it this way is not to sell products. I totally believe in holistic planning, holistic planning is the only way to go. The products are just an off shoot. It's just a solution for a plan. And in fact, somebody said "Why would you write Seven stages of Planning like that?" and I said, "Look, basically when I go and meet a client, I look at what their most important objectives are." Like their objective, maybe to do X, I'm not going to push something else. Really. So proper planning is using that. But the book, all the book does is, Jason, to completely say, what are the kind of problems they could face? And what are the possible solutions? And these are not the only ones solutions. This is a solution. And then in the book, I stressed the importance in having an advisor, your proper qualified advisor to work with them and then satisfy the problems. That is the bottom line. Does it make sense to you? And then I think everything else is secondary, really.
Jason Pereira: Yep. Excellent. So Kam, thank you very much for this. If people wanted to find a copy of this book and I do advise advisors who are especially newer to the industry, who're listening to this podcast and take the time, take a look at it to clients who want understand some of the reasoning as to why it is we look at these things, this is a good starting place. Where can people find the book?
Kam Chari: Yeah, there are two ways of doing this. One, I think I've got a website. I don't know how, it's called Answerfinancialsolutions.com. It's a website, which I have, if they go to that website, it'll tell you how to order books directly from me. Also, the book is available in Amazon Kindle. So the Kindle version of the book is available, which is basically they can download Kindle free, which is Amazon gives them the view at free. The cost, I kept the cost relatively low because I really want to benefit the advisers at this stage of my life. I really, my goal is to benefit the advisors and the clients. So the cost of the Kindle version is only 9.95, $9 and 95 cents. So they can view that in their laptop, their tablet, even in their small iPhone so that they can buy that through Amazon. If they Google Seven Stages of Planning, it'll come up or they can say, answerfinancialsolutions.com. You will get information. They can email me and then I can then, cost us $15 plus mailing directly from me.
Jason Pereira: Excellent. Kam, thank you so much for taking the time. I appreciate it
Kam Chari: Thank you, Jason.
Jason Pereira: So that was my interview with Kam Chari, The Seven Stages of Planning. I hope you enjoyed that. And if, again, if you're looking for a good resource on where to start to understand what the concepts of different products and solutions that are applicable to do consumers and Canadians at different stages of life, this is a good, pretty easily digestible read. That is very straightforward. And as always, if you enjoy this podcast, please leave a review on iTunes, Stitcher, or your podcasts. And until next time take care.
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