Tax Audits & How They Are Changing with Anna Malazhavaya | E081
What to do when CRA comes knocking.
Today’s guest is Anna Malazhavaya, a tax lawyer and Advotax Law Professional Corporation founder. Anna is an expert in dealing with problems involving audits. Jason and Anna are going to talk about what it means to go through an audit and what the reality of it is.
Episode Highlights:
· Anna helps people who have any kind of problems with CRA. She helps people when things are not going well, meaning that the CRA is knocking at their door, but they don’t agree with what CRA is saying, so they have to dispute the CRA decision.
· The audit does not mean you did something wrong. It means there’s some sort of communication between yourself and CRA where they’re not seeing something, and we are not getting or buying something.
· You don’t need to be doing something wrong to be selected for an audit or free audit to go up really bad.
· The CRA has upped their game in the last three or four years. They got a lot of money for it, and we see that money working.
· Typically, in the first step for audit, you will get a brown envelope that nobody likes to receive in their mailbox, and it will identify what they are looking for.
· Audits start with an auditor’s letter introducing him or herself as telling a taxpayer that they are being audited. This is the period we’re looking at, and these are the questions we will have for you.
· Many software and resources are available for managing your financial information. Using those, the more prepared you are and the easier it is for you to survive the audit.
· Just do everything in writing because this way, we have a record of everything. In terms of what you have to provide and what you don’t have to provide, the questions need to be consulted with a good lawyer.
· Communication is key, and auditors have a lot of power. We get to dispute their decision later, but it’s going to cost you a lot of time and money, and it’s not fun to do.
· If you did something wrong, you’re accountable. But auditors not going to be a big brother on every transaction we ever have because that’s not how they’re supposed to operate.
· At the end of the day, it’s meant to catch the bad guys, but at the expense of our privacy and expenses, CRA always has an opportunity to start a fishing expedition for every audit they do.
· Explanatory notes to the new rules say that we have broadened the scope to provide the new realities with the digital world.
· Auditors used to interview neighbors before in their defense, but the neighbors had the right to say no, we are not interested, and we’re not talking to you.
· If we did nothing wrong and the client did nothing wrong and have some evidence to support our case, we fight till the end. There are ways to encourage settlement on the other side, and this can be achieved by making a fair and well--support settlement offer.
3 Key Points:
1. Computers don’t know that you are a good and honest person. Computers may pick you up for an audit, and you will be caught, and you will have to go through the not very pleasant exercise together with people who did something wrong.
2. Jason and Anna discuss that are the best practices for surviving an audit, and what other pieces of advice she would give to the listeners.
3. Auditors get to inspect personal documents or documents of any other person if they relate to a targeted person or his tax liability.
Tweetable Quotes
· “We also help people when things are going well for them, meaning they are making lots of money but looking for ways to optimize their tax situation or corporate structure.” - Anna
· “It’s funny the level of disdain and contempt some people have for the nation’s tax authority and thinking that they are not very smart people.” - Jason
· “There are chances that you may not need to provide everything they ask for, which can help you in the future.” - Anna
· “We see the CRA entering the digital world as well. We see a request for accounting data, which makes some clients uncomfortable. They think it’s too invasive, and I agree with them.” – Anna
· “I think the audit in the future will be more effective, faster, and more accurate, but it’s going to be invasive.” – Anna
· “When it comes to audits, often, people think fair is fair, and if I’m clean, I’m clean. Unfortunately, sometimes when you’re in the crosshairs of an auditor, they may say they will not let you off on something you think is valid.” - Jason
Resources Mentioned
· Facebook – Jason Pereira’s Facebook
· LinkedIn – Jason Pereira’s LinkedIn
Full Transcript:
Producer: Welcome to The Financial Planning for Canadian Business Owners Podcast. You will hear about industry insights with award-winning financial planner and entrepreneur, Jason Pereira. Through the interviews with different experts, with their stories and advice, you will learn how you can navigate the challenges of being an entrepreneur, plan for success and make the most of your business and life. And now your host, Jason Pereira.
Jason Pereira: Hello and welcome. It's been a while since you've probably heard this podcast, I was off in a bit of a hiatus, because those of you who follow me know I have a lot of things on the go and the production schedule just got away from me. But I'm happy to say that I'm looking to pick that up now and hope to be back on a regular schedule weekly, starting with today's episode. So sorry for the pause, but well we'll come back.
Jason Pereira:So today's guest is Anna Malazhavaya, tax lawyer and the founder of Advotax Law Professional Corporation. And Anna is an expert in dealing with problems involving audits. And that's why I basically brought her on today, was to talk about what it means to go through an audit and what the reality of it is. And with that, here's my interview with Anna. Anna, thanks for taking the time today.
Anna Malazhavaya: Thank you for having me, Jason.
Jason Pereira: So Anna Malazhavaya and the other name. Tell us a little bit about what it is you do.
Anna Malazhavaya: I help people who have any kind of problems with the CRA. I help people when things are not going really well, meaning that the CRA is knocking at their door and they don't agree with what the CRA is saying. So they have to dispute the CRA's decision. So in that case, we make submissions to the auditors. We make submissions to CRA appeals. Sometimes we have to go to court, we have to go to Tax Court of Canada, or we have to go to Federal Court of Appeal. So we help people when things are not going really well for them on the tax side, we also help people when things are going well for them, meaning they making lots of money, then they're looking for ways to optimize their tax situation or their corporate structure, to make sure that they pay just enough money in tax, whatever they have to pay, but they don't pay anything extra. So we're looking for ways to save money in tax for people. So either you're going through good days or you're going through bad days tax-wise, we're here to help.
Jason Pereira: Excellent. So audit, a word that invokes fear in the hearts of countless people. And let's just be clear about this. The reality is, audit does not mean you did something wrong. It means that there's some sort of communication between yourself and CRA where they're not seeing something or not getting something or not buying something, one or the other. And hopefully you don't come to too much of an impasse, but basically, this is not to say anyone did anything wrong and that's where I'm going with it. So let's talk first and foremost about the basics of audit. How do people get selected for audits?
Anna Malazhavaya: Well, you're absolutely right here, bad audits happen to good people. We see it every day in our office, unfortunately. You don't need to be doing something wrong to be a selected for an audit, or for your audit to go off really bad. So these things happen to the best of us. That's why there are tax professionals who can help you go through it. How you get selected, in the modern world, we see the trend of people being selected for an audit through very sophisticated data analysis. We see it more and more. Before, we saw people who were selected for an audit because there would be something specific to that person's situation that would be highlighted during a random review. We some more random audits back in the days, in the old days.
Anna Malazhavaya: Now, pretty much every audit I see my office, I can almost categorize to in audit project that I know is now underway within the CRA and is either real estate related project or crypto project or cash heavy industries projects. I can pretty much guess which project this audit originated from. So a lot of it is very actually sophisticated. It's becoming very effective. It's impressive, the CRA, they have really up their game in the last maybe three or four years. They got a lot of money for it and we see that money working now.
Jason Pereira: I'm glad you brought that up, because first and foremost, it's funny just level of disdain and contempt some people have for a nation's tax authority and thinking that they're not very smart people. And my response is always like, "Okay, they're not smart, but you're trying to pull something that basically involves a paper trail, including crypto, which by the way is by its nature, a paper trail in itself. And you think that they're just never going to figure it out and that they haven't seen every trick that people have ever tried to pull." They've seen everything. They've literally seen stuff that people couldn't dream of. So the average person thinking they're going to pull a fast one, is just such foolishness.
Jason Pereira: So yeah. So these projects though, let's go back to this concept of this project. To some people that may sound like, "Oh, they're targeting people with X, Y, and Z. Well, if they're targeting people with X, Y, and Z, it's typically because they know there's a systematic problem where this was being under-reported before. Is that not the case?
Anna Malazhavaya: I think so. I'll give you an example, the most frequently used. Real estate projects in greater Toronto area and in Vancouver area, the CRA published their statistics on how profitable these projects were, and there were specific numbers of the money they thought the government lost in tax revenues, by not implementing those projects sooner. Those are, I want to say billions, maybe I shouldn't exaggerate, but definitely-
Jason Pereira: Probably not.
Anna Malazhavaya: ... hundreds of millions of dollars in unpaid taxes that we did not get as a society. So definitely these projects are well organized, they're well thought through. But if you ask me, does it ever happen that totally innocent people get caught in these projects, just because they look like they've done something wrong? And the answer is absolutely yes, unfortunately, because it's all data analysis and computers don't know you, don't know that you're a good person. Computers may pick you for an audit and you will be caught and you will have to go through this, not very pleasant exercise together with people who actually did something wrong. So unfortunately that's the way the system works right now.
Jason Pereira: Yeah. You can't cast a net without getting some of the wrong type of fish. That's just going to happen. Right? So tuna and dolphins, what can I say? Okay. So let's talk about best practices for surviving an audit. Actually, let's go through the process. So someone will typically get a request for information or a reassessment, right? Saying, "Hey, prove X," right? Is that usually the first step they typically end up seeing?
Anna Malazhavaya: Typically you would get that brown envelope that nobody likes to receive in their mailbox and it will identify exactly what they're looking for. It can be something very routine like, "Provide proof for that medical expense, a $100 that she claimed last year." Or it can be very extensive, such as, "Give us your bank statements for the last three, four years, here's a 15 page questionnaire." And that's normally assigned for us that something is seriously wrong. And that fell under some manual laundering or offshore tax evasion, something really, really bad." So, yes.
Anna Malazhavaya: So it starts with a letter of an auditor introducing him or herself, as telling a taxpayer that they're being audited. "This is your period that we're looking at, and these are the questions we're going to have for you." And while we're in the subject, audits rarely start by a phone call. And I know by now, probably at least your audience will know, but just in case, it's very unusual for the CRA auditor to contact you by phone and to start asking you questions.
Jason Pereira: Then they send people to your door, if you don't answer and have you pay with Bitcoin or Apple gift cards.
Anna Malazhavaya: [Crosstalk 00:08:41].
Jason Pereira: Yeah. These things don't happen. These things don't happen.
Anna Malazhavaya: No they don't. And then normally my advice is now is the time, as early as possible is to get help. Why? Because there may be questions in that letter that you don't need to answer. There may be documents in that letter that they ask for that you don't need to provide. The scope of the audit may be too broad and you don't know it. And your advisor may try to narrow it down. So as soon as you have that audit, it's generally a good idea, especially if you see that it looks serious, the list of items they want include your firstborn child. Maybe you should pick up the phone and get help because chances are, you may not need to provide everything they ask for, and that can help you in the future.
Jason Pereira: Yeah. So simple ones like couple years ago, CRA was picking on, was professional fees. "Oh, you claim you spent $10,000 on various professionals for your business. Okay. Great. Prove it." Right? So frankly, for stuff like that, that's pretty standard, right? It's just, they're asking you to verify an expense or deduction you claimed. I just actually got off the phone with a friend who is having his childcare expenses scrutinized, right? Again, these are all things that, "Hey, you should have some supporting evidence for this. It's just a deduction. Give us that." But when we start talking about, as you said, the first born, it's, "Send us your bank records and all your invoices for this and your entire accounting database." That's when it starts to be like, "Well, okay, hold on a sec." That's that's not a single issue you're dealing with. This is something bigger. So I get what you're saying.
Jason Pereira: So where is that line? Is what I'm saying in terms of the simple request for a piece of information, that's not reason for alarm, but when that list gets lengthy, that's where we need to start getting concerned.
Anna Malazhavaya: I guess so, another way of looking at it is sometimes it's pure economics, right? Unfortunately, tax lawyers are expensive, tax accountants who handle audits and who bill hourly, they are expensive. So if they are looking to provide proof for a $100 expense, you may not need a tax lawyer to help you with that. So you kind of need to assume how much money is it going to cost me if things go bad? And is it worth it for me to get a consultation, at least? So sometimes it's pure economics. And sometimes you gather... And people generally have an idea of when things look really bad, even though they think they did nothing wrong. Even though they didn't make much money, didn't report much money. Really, they did nothing wrong, but they get a 20 page questionnaire about their offshore holdings or things like that.
Anna Malazhavaya: And I've seen that happening and that it turned out to be and identity fraud, where my client's identity was stolen. Some ridiculous things were done using her name, and her information that eventually made its way to the CRA. And that's why this poor old lady who worked at a store as a salesperson, made very modest salary, somehow became subject of this really invasive audit. So in those cases, again, maybe it's worth it to get help.
Jason Pereira: Yep. And let's be also clear that there are legitimate and legal reasons and not tax avoidance reasons for having offshore assets, everything from you have a property in your home country to just having a bank account there for when you visit, right? Those are offshore assets. So anyway, we'll jump back into that.
Anna Malazhavaya: That's goes without saying, there's nothing wrong with offshores at all.
Jason Pereira: Well, people hear offshore and they automatically assume mass tax evasion. And I always put an end of that quickly. So what are the best practices for surviving an audit? So the audit comes up, you already talked about reaching out and getting help sooner than later. What other pieces of advice would you give?
Anna Malazhavaya: Most of them are obvious ones, but we only think about them after the audit happens. So I'll state the obvious, be prepared, right? In this day and age, there's so much technology that will help you take a picture of your receipt, documents, scan everything. So really, there's software to keep log of your business trips, there's software for managing your financial information. There's so many resources, take advantage of that. And the more prepared you are, the easier it is for you to survive the audit.
Anna Malazhavaya: My big advice to my clients is to always, always avoid answering questions on the spot. And that would be during the audit, not when the CRA will not call you and demand that you ask questions. But in the course of an audit, you may get a phone call from your auditor who will be very polite and nice person. And who will remember your kids' names or your dog's names, and they will chitchat with you. And then they will start asking you questions. And you will feel like you knew the answers to the questions. So it's not rocket science. You can answer those questions.
Anna Malazhavaya: I would discourage people from doing that. And understand that there's nothing wrong, at least for now to request that the same questions are posed to you in writing in the letter. And you can explain it by saying that, "I'm a afraid that I'm going to miss something. I want to get things right. So let's just do everything in writing. This way we have a record of everything." So coming back to what you have to provide, what you don't have to provide, those are the questions that need to be consulted on with a lawyer.
Anna Malazhavaya: Another good tip, I always like to provide to people is to understand how much time and expense an audit may. If we're talking about a business, a small, or even mid-size business, some businesses actually have to budget the time, have to allocate an employee to dealing with an audit request. It's disruptive, it's expensive. And unfortunately, sometimes it needs to be done.
Anna Malazhavaya: Another thing I like to say is that communication is key. And auditors have a lot of power. Obviously we get to dispute their decision later on, but it's going to cost you a lot of time and money and just, it's not fun to do. But before they meet that decision, this is your chance to establish a relationship that's productive, that's workable, and that will help the auditor find answers to their questions. So respect the deadlines, be polite. If you need more time to provide something, ask for an extension of time in advance, but throughout this process, especially if you're not represented by a professional, mind that imbalance in power. The last thing I want to see on the audits reports is the notes from the auditor that my client was abusing, yelling at the auditor, screaming, throwing things and doing things like that. It's just never good. It's not going to affect the auditor's substantial decision, but I know that I now have a harder battle to fight, and it's just not worth it.
Anna Malazhavaya: And this is fairly recent, we see requests for digital data, digital accounting data from client. So remember in the old days, if the auditor wants to see something, they would get a box of PDF of documents, not necessarily in order printouts or receipts. As we're entering the digital age or some of us are there already, some of us are not there yet. We see the CRA entering that world as well. So we see requests for accounting data, and that makes some clients really uncomfortable. They think it's too invasive. And I got to say, I agree. Having said so, there's been a recent decision from the federal court that said, there's nothing wrong with those requests and whatever format the CRA chooses to request the information in, they're free to do that. And that actually now will be formalized through the new amendments, to the rules.
Jason Pereira: Which is nuts because at the end of the day, if they go looking for one thing and then they suddenly get your entire database, they can go looking for anything imaginable. So don't get me wrong. If you did something wrong, you're accountable, right? That's it. But they don't get to be a big brother on every transaction we ever have, right? That's not the way they're supposed to operate. And unfortunately, turning over the accounting files mean theoretically lets them audit every last transaction, every last transaction, which could open a can of worms for all we know.
Anna Malazhavaya: I agree. And that was actually the subject of my last article of looking on tax foundation. This future of audits is digital. And in a way it's good because it's going to be so much more efficient and we're going to get our audit results within weeks, as opposed to years in some cases. But at the same time, it can be efficiently expedition, like you said. I already see a requests when the CRA audits a sale of a home, but they want bank statements for the last four years. So there always must be someone who comes in and says, "Why do we need bank statements for the last four years when you're auditing a sale of a house?" And with the new technology, there's so much data analytics you can do with those records that you must provide, you must share. So yeah, I think the audits of the future will be more effective, faster, more accurate, but they're going to be very invasive.
Jason Pereira: Yeah. Well, I would say a big thing is, think about the entire, this is artificial intelligence getting thrown at it, right? The reality is that they'll be able to simply get you to link up your QuickBooks or your zero and hook up to their AI engine within minutes, basically flag, whatever it is they want to flag. So yeah, invasive, right down to the last transaction. That is the level of invasion we're talking about.
Anna Malazhavaya: Yep. Yep. That's in the future for us. And so far the way the legislation develops and the way we see the CRA invest their money. And the way we see the laws developed in other countries, in Europe. So that's where we are going. At one point, I don't know if there is a way to slow this process, at the end of the day, it's meant to catch the bad guys, but at the expense of our privacy and at the expense of the CRA always having an opportunity to start efficient expedition for every audit they do.
Jason Pereira: Now you said there's some draft legislation, is this basically covering so digital audit or is there more coming that's going to empower them even further?
Anna Malazhavaya: There are new rules that are still in draft format. The rules were announced close to a year ago in 2021 federal budget. And the rules were meant to address one decision from the federal court. The decision was called chemical. And in that decision, the CRA wanted to force chemical, which is a large company, multinational company, to interview their employers, 25 of their employers, including the employers in Canada and outside of Canada. And chemical agreed to that process before.
Anna Malazhavaya: And then when the CRA had to do it again. They said, "No, we're not hiding anything. We're going to answer the questions in writing if you want to. But we are not submitting our employees for an oral interview because we are not comfortable with the process. We are not allowed to record the interviews. Then the results of those interviews were grossly inconsistent with our notes. So if you need the answers, we'll give you the information. We're not hiding anything, but we are not disrupting our business. We're not submitting our employees for the interview."
Anna Malazhavaya: So the chemical went to court and won, court looked at the current version of the rules and said to the CRA, "There is no specific power to compel oral interviews." So the CRA was out of lack in that case. And chemical got to provide the answers in writing, which they wanted to do.
Anna Malazhavaya: In response to that case, the ministry of finance suggested an amendment to the current rules. And the current rules initially announced in April were broad. And we thought, "Wow, that's broad." But then in February, just February of 2022, we got a new version. And it's even broader to the point that all of us tech lawyers got on the phone, calling each other, saying to each other, "Did you see this? Can you believe how broad that is?"
Anna Malazhavaya: So to make long story short, the new rules will allow the CRA the power compel oral interviews, pretty much anyone. So if they audit Jason, they can force Jason's neighbors to answer questions about Jason, Jason's ex-business partners, former employer, childhood friend, high school teachers. So anyone can be now forced to answer questions about Jason's tax liability. Very broad.
Anna Malazhavaya: Another thing that's now extended is the circle of people who the CRA gets to ask documents from or inspect their property. So the CRA now gets to inspect through an audit. So if they're auditing Jason, they get to inspect Jason's documents or documents of any other person if they relate to Jason's tax liability or anyone else's liability. So that's how broadly drafted. And we cannot believe. It should be tied in a little bit, we think, so literally if we're audit in Jason, we can ask Anna to provide her documents for inspection, because they may relate to Bob's tax liability. It's basically everything under the sun. Let me just make it simple. We get to ask anything about anyone is how the [crosstalk 00:24:18].
Jason Pereira: Well, that's what it sounds like. The question is, actually where's the limit, right? And then like it's [inaudible 00:24:23] in it best.
Anna Malazhavaya: We hope there be some changes to the final version of the rules. But for now, it's very broad. The explanatory notes to the new rules basically say that we've broadened the scope just to provide for the new realities because, and there's the [crosstalk 00:24:42].
Jason Pereira: So what, neighbors didn't exist before? You know what? You want to make the argument about digital realm, knock yourself out. There's new things constantly evolving, but the new world, like, "Oh, neighbors didn't exist before. Paperwork didn't exist before." Give me a break.
Anna Malazhavaya: Well, in their defense, they used to interview neighbors before, but the neighbors had there right to say, "No, not interested. We're not talking to you." Not anymore. I hear now the rule is pretty clear. They get to answer all proper questions. They get to interview pretty much anyone about anyone's tax liability.
Jason Pereira: I bet the real question is what's the penalty? Is this a criminal charge if they fail to participate?
Anna Malazhavaya: Yes. So there are enforcement mechanisms within the Act. When someone fails to comply, there is a fee and there are even criminal charges. If you've been really malicious, there are even criminal implications to that.
Jason Pereira: So that's quite hilarious in that. In a country where we don't send people to jail for not paying taxes. We now will basically consider criminal prosecution if you're not willing to rat out your neighbors. Oh my gosh.
Anna Malazhavaya: [Crosstalk 00:25:56]. I don't think that criminal provision will be used often. I don't think so. [crosstalk 00:26:05]
Jason Pereira: No, I'd rather just not exist. Let's be honest.
Anna Malazhavaya: It's there. So no lawyer will say, "Oh, forget about it. Don't worry about it." They will say, "Yeah, you have to comply because there is a risk of all kinds of problems."
Jason Pereira: Lovely. Now, one other thing I think is one address quickly, when it comes to audits, oftentimes people think fair is fair. And if I'm clean, I'm clean. Unfortunately, sometimes when you're in crosshairs of an auditor, they may to wrap it up, simply say that they will let you off on X, Y, and Z, but they're not going to let you off on A, B and C, even if A, B and C are completely valid, which I've had several people go through this and they are shocked and disgusted by it. But like many other things, the cost of fighting it often outweighs the cost of paying it. And they know that. So I think you've had some experience with that sort of thing.
Anna Malazhavaya: Yes. So I would, like you said, tax trials are expensive and really any appeals are expensive. So there are maybe points where we sit down and we try to come to an agreement that's kind of neither here nor there, and knowing full well that it's going to cost my client way more to fight it all the way to trial. But I would only agree to it if I don't feel confident about our chances at trial, those are normally instances where I don't have documentary evidence. And I only have my client's testimony that they either paid for something or did something and other than that, I don't have any other evidence. Normally in those cases, we need to go to trial. We need to put the client in front of the judge to testify. And then the judge gets to either believe my client or not believe my client.
Anna Malazhavaya: So when there is a risk that the judge may not believe my client that's when I may recommend to settle. But if we did nothing wrong and the client did nothing wrong and we have some evidence to support it, we fight to the end. There are ways to encourage settlement on the other side. And this can be achieved by making a settlement offer that's fair and well supported. And then if we reach a better result at trial, the CRA will have to pay a substantial part of my client's legal cost. So that's an incentive for them to take our settlement offers seriously when they're reasonable and well supported.
Jason Pereira: Yeah. I've got a couple clients going through something like that right now. And it's funny, because I think CRA knows that they're going to lose and the offer's been made more than once and the, "Oh, let's settle for 10%." "Let's settle for 7%." The number keeps on going down because they're like, "No, we'll go to court." "No, we'll go to court." "No, we'll go to court." So it'll be interesting to see how these things resolve themselves. But unfortunately, like I said, you may think, "Well, but I have all the proof and I have evidence. They should go away." That's not necessarily how they're going to behave, unfortunately. So it is what it is.
Anna Malazhavaya: It really depends on the person. Some people are more aggressive, and especially, I hear that if you're talking about trials, you're talking about the matter is probably within the tax court already, they're, yeah. I generally have a lot of respect for [inaudible 00:29:33] lawyers. So I think they're exceptionally well trained, they're very professional. And overall a really good group. But within that group, they're more aggressive ones, they're less aggressive ones. So you never know who you end up with.
Jason Pereira: Well, hopefully someone who's sympathetic. So yes. Thank you very much for your time, Anna. Very much appreciated it. Where can people find you?
Anna Malazhavaya: Our office is in the topical, as we've established, not far from you.
Jason Pereira: Not far from where I live. Yep.
Anna Malazhavaya: We see people in person, but like everyone else in this day and age, most of our business is done through Zoom and email and phone calls. We help people across Canada because income tax is under federal jurisdictions. So we help people in BC and Alberta, in Manitoba and throughout Ontario, obviously. My website is wwwadvotaxlaw.CA
Jason Pereira: Excellent. All right. Thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it.
Anna Malazhavaya: Thank you, Jason, for having me.
Jason Pereira: And that was this week's episode of Financial Planning for Canadian Business Owners, happy to be back. And I hope to keep this a little bit more consistent. Just so you know, next week is the budget episode, because this is airing on budget day. So we'll have a lot of fun. And as always, if you enjoy this podcast please review it Apple Podcast, at your SoundCloud, Spotify, or whatever's your podcast. Until next time, take care.
Producer: This podcast was brought to you by Woodgate financial, an award-winning financial planning firm, catering to high net worth individuals, business owners, and their families. To learn more, go to woodgate.com. You could subscribe to this podcast on Apple podcast, Stitcher, Google Play, and Spotify, or find more episodes at jasonpereira.ca. You can even ask Siri, Alexa or Google Home to subscribe for you.