Mastermind Groups with Grant Hicks | E099
Creating a network of other successful business owners.
On today's episode, Jason Pereira is going to talk to Grant Hicks, a known financial advisor coach who has been out there basically helping advisors build better practices. He is going to share more powerful and more effective means or strategies that he has seen advisors put in place for business owners that have really helped elevate their business practices.
Episode Highlights:
01:07: Grant has been in the industry for 33 years, he now focuses on practice management and all facets of practice management.
01:35: He is going to share a story of one of the advisors he has worked with and their mastermind group, how to build it, and how to manage it.
03:24: We are all business owners, at the end of the day, working on our businesses together.
04:30: Every business has different issues that they are working with.
05:47: As per Grant the 5 facets of a business are Business planning, growth and marketing planning, people and HR challenges, processes to run your business, and the key data and KPIs that one needs to run.
07:35: Grant talks about processes and running effective processes and how do you map with the process.
09:53: The HR piece is fascinating, and it's invaluable there because you probably have multiple real time experiments going on, says Grant.
11:04: The more time you give something without a deadline, the less like it is going to get done, you give it a deadline and it gets done.
12:32: Grant explains how he works through the succession and transition issues.
15:11: Grant talks about various priority changes in any business.
15:47: Grant talks about the different success stories.
16:58: Everyone thinks their baby's pretty, especially when it comes time to put a price tag on it and get the entire endowment effect to play there. But reality is, it doesn't matter people are going to judge it for their own what they consider beautiful.
18:26: One of the other aspects that Grant wants to share is the final aspect, i.e., the growth piece and the marketing piece. Each person has to bring their kind of branding brand guide, their marketing guides or ideas.
20:08: Grant shares one major success story that really stuck out in his mind.
21:02: This is the long game where you are trying to find the ideal clients, and you are trying to find your ideal niche, which would be probably business owners that are selling their practice, and it's the long game where you are getting to help solve the problems.
22:30: Benchmarking is used for financial advisors, but we also use benchmarking for business owners and you could look at how benchmarking is used as a tool to help people guide them as well.
3 Key Points:
Jason and Grant talk about succession and transition
Grant shares what is a very common challenge for most business owners today in the economy.
Grant shares how mastermind group is contributing to bring together a bunch of people who have walked a bunch of different paths. It may or may not be relevant to what you are looking for, but can definitely help.
Tweetable Quotes:
"We are going to talk a bit about today is the growth aspect of growing your practice." - Grant Hicks
"I have a weekly poker match with a bunch of buddies from university, and they are at different executive positions, and you listen to the different changes in the work life during COVID, and the entire remote work thing saw a massive productivity spike." - Jason
"You are much more purposeful with that time, so it's not surprising to me because I have seen it elsewhere that moving to a four-day work week has actually resulted in higher productivity cause there is always the Parkinson's law that basically says the task will take the amount of time that's allotted." - Jason
"God knows the statistics on succession are not great. I remember, even in our industry, I have heard statistics in the US say the average successful session takes about seven years to nail down and get completely done, start to finish out the joke that failure Is a lot quicker than that." - Jason
"Some people are spending a ton of money on marketing and SEO and different Internet strategies." - Grant
Resources Mentioned:
Facebook – Jason Pereira's Facebook
LinkedIn – Jason Pereira's LinkedIn
advisorproductmanagement.com
advisorpracticemanagement.com
https://mobile.twitter.com/davideedey
Producer: Welcome to the financial planning for Canadian Business Owners' podcast. You will hear about industry insights with award winning financial planner and entrepreneur Jason Pereira. Through the interviews with different experts with their stories and advice, you will learn how you can navigate the challenges of being an entrepreneur, plan for success and make the most of your business and life. And now, your host, Jason Pereira
Jason Pereira: Well and welcome. Today in the podcast I have a friend of mine, Grant Hicks, a wellknown financial advisor coach, who has been out there, basically helping advisors build better practices, but in particular, he's come to me with one of the more powerful and more effective means or strategies that he's seen advisors put in place for business owners that have really helped elevate their, their business practices. And that's specifically putting together mastermind groups. And with that, here's my interview with Grant. Grant, thanks for giving time today.
Grant Hicks: Thanks for having me, Jason.
Jason Pereira: My pleasure. So, Grant Hicks, tell us a little bit about what it is you do.
Grant Hicks: So, in the industry for 33 years. I now focus on practice management and all facets of practice management. What we're going to talk a bit about today is the growth aspect of growing your practice. That's wh, one of the elements. So, really, we're going to look at how can you build, not only just a better practice, but also, focus on the ideal clientele that you'd really like to get into. And that's what we want to talk a bit about. I'm going to share a story of one of the advisors that I work with and their mastermind group; how to build it, how to manage it, what does that look like, what are the benefits. But more importantly, it's what are the benefits to your ideal prospects, and or ideal clients. Which are probably business owners, and that's what we're going to touch on today.
Jason Pereira: Excellent. All right. So, all right. Talk to me about what a mastermind group is, and we can get into the benefits of it.
Grant Hicks: Yeah, so every se, every financial advisor wants to have a network of centers of influence. And so, you need to find some good COIs, you need to meet some COIs, I think you need to engage some good COIs, and, it's the engagement level that gets advisors frustrated and they say to me all the time, well, I got COIs but I, I give them referrals, but I don't get any back. And that's what we want to talk about. How do you not only get in front of those COIs, how do you actually engage them to give and get referrals? So, quick little story. So this one financial advisor, what we did was, we, we built the process to first off, find COIs. And what he did was, he went to his best clients and asked them for the names of what I call, the magic six. Accountant, lawyer, realtor, mortgage broker, general insurance agency and commercial expert. And so, each of his clients shared who their COIs were working with, and so now he collected his top 20 clients, he had over 100 names of potential COIs to go and meet, interview, and build a, what we call the mastermind group. The ultimate goal was, not only just how they network the COIs, but bring them into a forum together and invite other business owners to this forum, and actually put on your own mastermind group where we could work on business challenges, because we're all business owners at the end of the day, working on our businesses together. So that was goal number one. The goal, Jason, eventually went to number two, which we'll talk about as well, is why would these business owners join this group, and we're going to talk a bit about succession and transition. So, they found them through their best clients, then they met with them, and then we want to draw in some other business owners, engage them, and we put together a mastermind group; brought them together and the mastermind group really helped them meet other like-minded business owners that had similar challenges and were also worried about succession transition.
Jason Pereira: Excellent. So, okay. So, that's how we want to talk about the approach to the business owners. So you went to a number of business owners and said hey, you know, after I've done all this, I've got this group of people together, what's the actual takeaways that they are going to be receiving from this. I mean, just **** all those peoples attractive in the first place, knowing you got a bunch of people that's there, but you know, how are these things basically structured to be effective?
Grant Hicks: Yeah so, every business has different issues that they're working with. So they went back to the business owners, and they kind of interviewed them and said, what are your top three challenges in business? And they would lay out their kind of top three challenges. And how do you kind of tackle those challenges? Do you have a business coach, do you work with other training experts? Like, how do you tackle these challenges? And what they discovered was, they were on their own.
Jason Pereira: Mm hmm.
Grant Hicks: They were on their own devices to try to figure out how to tackle these challenges. But like, Jason, what's a very common challenge for most business owners today in the economy? Is personnel, right?
Jason Pereira: First, yeah, well, back, the labor statistics, alone. Yeah. That, and you know, that, that and the challenges of working from home, but personnel, people are the, always the biggest problem, whether it's now or ever.
Grant Hicks: Right. So imagine going to this group and hearing that, holy smokes, everyone's got the same problems, everyone's running into the same challenges. How are we going to tackle this? And so, they would bring in different HR experts to speak to the group. Hey, here's how other companies have challenged this. Would you like to join the group? Well, that would be valuable. Right, join the group. They actually paid to be part of this group, believe it or not. They paid to go and help their business challenges and put it together as, as a network. Right? So, they would come to the group and they would look at, what I call, the five facets. You know, your business planning, your growth and marketing planning, your people and HR challenges, your processes to run your business, and the key data and KPIs that you need to run. So we looked at managing those five areas of the business and working on those challenges. And so, that was the drawing card for people to go, yeah, you know what, I'll join one meeting and see what it looks like, see what it sounds like, and one business owner would, would join, listen to other three, four, five business owners tackle different challenges, have different speakers come in to work on those challenges and they were working on their business. They were working on their business together with other likeminded people. And that was the drawing card. And so it became like, the word got out, and as they talked to more business owners, so all the COIs, they've got 30, 40, 50 business owners. And they had six or seven of them in the meeting, imagine the number of business owners that wanted to be part of this mastermind group.
Jason Pereira: Well, I mean, it makes, it's interesting. 'Cause I've seen, I feel like I've seen this sort of thing that's like, there's different groups out there for where business owners can meet other business owners, fair enough, right? But I also found that those end up being, in some cases, echo chambers. You find a lot of likeminded people, which is good, but at the same time, you –
Grant Hicks: Yeah.
Jason Pereira: – sometimes, not having the outside parties, or someone like an advisor or whoever else it is, to kind of guide through the unknown unknowns, or just curate a little bit, sometimes leads to, you know, just a bunch of people making the same mistakes, as opposed to what you're describing here, which I think is, specifically turning to outside sources that have proven effective more than once, perhaps vetted by someone to ensure that these people actually know what they're talking about, and really kind of, I would say, bringing effective solutions to the forefront versus, uh, versus just conjecture.
Grant Hicks: Yeah, yeah. So, like, you know, I'm, I'm one of the speakers in the, in the mastermind group, and I talk about processes and running effective processes. How do you **** with the process. How do you put it into workflows and what do those processes look like, right? And so, we talk about each businesses and, and what is your CRM system, what is your data system, what is your technology, what is your processes, and those become really good discussions when you start to open it up, and people are going to go yeah, you know what, what system are you using, how do you use it? What is, what do you do here, what do you do there? The questions start to come out and the dialog starts to build and build and build because people have the same common challenges and the common questions to ask, right? And so, you could tackle different business issues like we talked about, like the succession transition, like having a certified business value here. We got a business valuation expert from Florida, who has done it for 35 years and talks about all the mistakes you make when you, when you're valuing a business. Like that's valuable stuff for these business owners and going oh yeah, oh yeah, that's good, oh that's good to know, that's good to, that's good to know, that's good to know. Now they have the inside leg when they're looking at their valuations and they're going back to their people and expert. They've had a, a conversation that gives them some confidence to go back and say yeah, I could, I could tackle this. Right?
Jason Pereira: Excellent. So it's incredible. So what are the more common areas that you see tackled in these groups, at least to your experience?
Grant Hicks: Yeah. Well, No. 1 is, is the HR issue. I mean, we all went through this, and we had a very good, long discussion. These, four of the companies are now planning out, phasing in over the next 3 years, a 4day work week. That I found amazing. Right?
Jason Pereira: Yeah.
Grant Hicks: And we, we talked about it, we planned it out. So, their 4day work week is, let's go to 4 days in the summer and then let's go to 4 days and put shoulders on that and let's go June to September, and then let's keep adding a few extra months. And over the next 3 years, the firm is going to be a, almost primarily, a 4day work week, which was, which was really fascinating. And we talked about, is it 32 hours? Is it 35 hours? Is it 40 hours?
Jason Pereira: Yeah.
Grant Hicks: Right? This was really good, interesting dialog, and there was different people there that, from the accounting perspective, of the cost perspective, the productivity is, uh, and the numbers are, it, it's incredible for these people to realize that and going, geez, yeah. The fear is we've done it this way for so long, but the results are completely the opposite. So, that was one of the things. They, the HR piece is, is fascinating, as you know.
Jason Pereira: Well, and they think it's invaluable there, 'cause you probably have multiple real-time experiments going on. Right? People who are at different stages of it, different experiences with it.
Grant Hicks: Yeah. That entire like, moving to a 4day work week thing, it's, it's, it's, it's funny, less is more in so many cases. Because it's, I mean, anyone who's, uh, I, I have a weekly poker match with a bunch of buddies from university, and they, various ones are, they're from executive positions, and I'll listen to the different changes in the work life during COVID, and the entire remote work thing saw a massive productivity spike. These guys are working at companies like Bonafide, saw like 10 to 15 percent increases in productivity. And then, the entire ones who moved to hybrid, it was like, you're not going into the office. If you're going in the office 5 days a week, it's easy to justify, you know, killing time by doing all kinds of other things, or maybe attending a local conference or taking a longer lunch. When you're there for only 3 days a week and you have work to do, or 2 days a week and you only have, you have work to do, and you have to, you want to get it done, you're much more purposeful with that time. So, it's not surprising to me, 'cause I've seen it elsewhere, that moving to a 4day work week has actually resulted in higher productivity 'cause it's just, again, it's, you know, 'cause otherwise, it, it's Parkinson's law that basically says, the amount of time, the amount of time it takes to ta, a task will take the amount of time that's allotted. Right? So the more time you give something without a deadline, the less likely it's gonna get done. You give it a deadline, and it gets done.
Jason Pereira: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. So, so, HR was one big issue that, the second big issue is what I call a niche COI network, and this is something for financial advisors to think about. You have your core COI network of accountants, lawyers, **** mortgage brokers, commercial people, etc. But also, this financial advisor built a niche COI network. And what that niche COI network, the focused on all people that are focused on succession and transition. So, a business valuator, a business broker, a commercial seller of different commercial properties, commercial realtor. They focused on the lawyer that is doing mergers and acquisitions. Right? So, they built a network of people that are only in succession and transition. And so that, this group of people became valuable when they came and did different presentations on telling how people took the company from X to Y, and sold it. And here's what the next company did, X to Y and sold it. The different stories. And so, those become really valuable conversations because everyone around the table is like, okay. Yeah. What's my exit strategy? What's my plan for succession transition? Is it transitioning to family? Is it selling this thing and getting a big check? Like, what are the, what are the issues here? And so, we worked through the succession and transition issues, which you start at lunch, we have a lunch and, and just get to, get to say hi, get a bit of a catchup, and then there's a set agenda from 1 till 5, and then we go out for dinner. And so, in the afternoon session, like when you talk about, you put succession and transition on the agenda, well, there's the afternoon. Like, but there's a lot to cover there, depending on what you're trying to tackle. So, that conversation carries on in the dinner session of stories of other people where, how they bought and sold different businesses. And, and so, they actually had someone come in, ah, during dinner to talk about how they actually sold their businesses, what businesses they sell and what, how, you know, tell us the story. And it became part of the, a fascination of, wow, that's kind of interesting how that, how you bought the business, how you sold the business, how you went out, went about it. So, succession and transition is another big one. HR, succession and transition.
Grant Hicks: Mm. Question for you. I mean, the success stories are one thing. You know, how much is their focus on the, the failings? The, God knows, the statistics on succession are, are not great in that, you know, I remember even, even in our industry, I've heard, uh, statistics in the U.S. say the average succession, successful succession, takes about 7 years to nail down and get completely done, start to finish. I like to joke that, you know, failure is a lot quicker than that. But the reality is, is if you're just talking to people who did it, who potentially did it right, or telling you they did it right, is there any kind of like, horror stories sharing by some of the people who come in and discuss this?
Jason Pereira: Yeah. The, the accountant was talking about how they got a couple businesses that just got completely devastated, such as a/k/a the entertainment business during COVID. Right?
Grant Hicks: Yeah.
Jason Pereira: And, and like, it just completely changed the, the, the math, obviously, and the valuations. So, the effect and, and people trying to come back from, from what happened after COVID, 'cause there was different industries that went well succeeded, but there was a lot that didn't. Right?
Grant Hicks: Yep.
Jason Pereira: And so, and so, absolutely. We talked about that and the accountant always likes to chime in on the math and the numbers, 'cause that's wa, that's what they kinda look at, and looking at it from where people are trying to get the revenue, too, and how does the math get there, like, so, if someone's trying to grow their business, for example and, and then they, they're just looking at the growth aspect, not the net aspect and all the key performance indicators. So, we talk about key KPI's quite a bit in the meeting and, and people have their goals set.
Grant Hicks: Mm hmm.
Jason Pereira: They have to have a goals session. Every session has a goals planning session, which is kind of interesting, and they talk about their, their personal goals, their business goals and the things that they're trying to accomplish. And it's interesting, every time you talk about your goals, how your priorities change. And, and, and there's, uh, actually a little goal exercise where the, create the Excel spreadsheet and you, you prioritize your goals. In some meetings, this was priority and the person talked about this. And then that priority changed, which is kind of, it, it is kind of an interesting observation I just made at one of the meetings of how some people's priorities kind of change slightly over, over time, and some are just steadfast the same.
Grant Hicks: Yeah. I think, you know, there's a personality type aspect of that. I think some people are much more like, they've got their clear destination. The rest, you know, everybody else is fig, figuring it out, quite honestly.
Jason Pereira: Yeah. Yep.
Grant Hicks: Yeah. It's tough. So, I mean, talk to me about some of the bigger success stories. I mean, like, how long have you been doing one, the, these things altogether?
Jason Pereira: Yeah. So, off and on, this, the mastermind group's been around for years, and I joined different mastermind groups, and this one has been, oh, this one's been around for a long time. We're, we're talking 7, 8, 9, 10 years, and they, this, this is more of a tighter group. The other mastermind group that I work with was more of a focus on succession and transition. That was a bit of the draw card.
Grant Hicks: Mm hmm.
Jason Pereira: And business owners would go, yeah, okay. I'd like to learn more about succession and transition. What it turned into is more of, yeah, I need to work on my business and what does that look like.
Grant Hicks: Mm hmm.
Jason Pereira: Right? And so, they just –
Grant Hicks: That's, I mean, that's not uncommon. When you start talking about the exit, right? People, you know, and you have the right conversations with valuators and people who market these things and everything else, you start saying okay, wait a sec. I need to get my house in order first before I get that. Otherwise, you know, it's the old, uh, saying. Everybody, every thinks their baby's pretty. Very few think it's, it's, it's ugly, and actually, funny enough, there was advisor out of the U.S. who actually published a book on –
Jason Pereira: My Baby's Ugly, and I saw that book. Yeah.
Grant Hicks: – yeah, baby, yeah, exactly.
Jason Pereira: By Justin Goodbread. I'm like –
Grant Hicks: yeah.
Jason Pereira: – wow, that was gutsy, gutsy cover.
Grant Hicks: But you know what, gutsy cover, but like, well said, right? 'Cause number of ti, everybody, everyone thinks their baby's pretty, and especially when, when it comes time to put a price tag on it. Right? You get the entire endowment effect to play there. But reality is, is that you gotta, as pretty as you think it is, it doesn't matter. People are gonna judge you for their own, what they consider beautiful. So.
Jason Pereira: Yeah. Yeah. And so what happens is, people kinda hear about the group and they say, hey, you might be interested in coming out to a meeting. You might be interested in joining us. Maybe join us for lunch. Maybe join us for dinner, and it becomes a bit of a club that people kinda wanna be involved in.
Grant Hicks: Yeah.
Jason Pereira: And they wanna stick around, because they see the benefits. They see the networking effect. They build relationships. And at the meetings, you could see, uh, people talking about, yeah, hey, you know what? I have this person, you should talk to this person about this issue. You should talk to this person about this issue. We have this person. Hey, I'm looking for more people on this side. And hey, I need an HR person and I need this, and I need that. And so, people are now starting to open up to give and share names and information, and people, and growing and expanding the network. Right?
Grant Hicks: We'll get to, it's a, it's, mastermind, it's one plus one is three. And that that's –
Jason Pereira: Yeah.
Grant Hicks: – what, that's what it's all about.
Jason Pereira: Totally. It makes sense. I mean, the other day, you heard everybody's benefiting from, from being able to network like this, and it's, the definition of the word sensei in martial arts, is one who's walked the path before you. Right? Effectively, this is –
Grant Hicks: Yeah.
Jason Pereira: – bringing together a bunch of people who walked in different, a bunch of different paths, who may or may not be relevant to what you're looking for, but can definitely help guide you. So –
Grant Hicks: Yeah.
Jason Pereira: – which is valuable.
Grant Hicks: Yeah. One of the other aspects I wanna share with you, the final –
Jason Pereira: Mm hmm.
Grant Hicks: – aspect is the growth piece and the marketing piece.
Jason Pereira: Mm hmm.
Grant Hicks: And, and each person has to bring their kinda branding, brand guide, their marketing, marketing guides or, or –
Jason Pereira: Mm.
Grant Hicks: – ideas. Some, now, some companies have actual marketing people there, and they, we haven't, and had their own people come and, and do a presentation, but they, they have that person give the CEO the, the marketing presentation. But it's interesting, on the different marketing aspects of different firms and how can you kinda learn different things. Some people are spending a ton of money on, on marketing, and, and SEO, and, and, and different internet strategies, and some people are doing it on a bootstrapping basis, but most business owners know they have to do the marketing. Some love it and they could talk about it all day long, and most hate it, which is –
Jason Pereira: Yep.
Grant Hicks: – kind of interesting. Right?
Jason Pereira: Well, it's the old, it's, it's, you know, for an industry that jokes around that 50 percent of it works, the problem is you don't know which 50 percent. It's no surprise that people who are used to running operations, and direct investment, and actual tangible outcome get frustrated by that degree of uncertainty.
Grant Hicks: Yeah, yeah. And most business owners say to me, hey, Grant, can you build me a marketing plan, or can you send somebody over that can do the marketing for us. They wanna hire somebody. They wanna –
Jason Pereira: Yeah.
Grant Hicks: – outsource that, hire someone and get it off their plate. And saying, yeah, okay. This is what I wanna do, this is how I wanna do it, and kind of, most of it is outsourced. They don't wanna do the marketing themselves, which is completely understandable. Right? But they know they have to invest in it. They know they have to spend in it. And so, it becomes a conversation where they could put the plan on paper, and then just go and outsource that piece.
Jason Pereira: Mm hmm. Yep. Excellent. So, all right. So, talk to me about some of the, you've been around this long enough, is there any kind of one, like one major success story that really sticks out in your mind for someone like, where this was a real transformational event for them, that they would've never seen otherwise?
Grant Hicks: Yeah, yeah. I've got a, a very successful advisory firm –
Jason Pereira: Yeah.
Grant Hicks: – and they are on the planning side of things, of course, and they're doing planning. Of course, their revenue comes from wealth management and insurance, but it is a, it's a very blend of their hitting the four to five million dollar type of revenue levels by working with this COI network, because that's where a big majority of their most ideal clients are coming from. Not all of them are coming from there, but that's where they're getting a lot of the introductions from, from people, and they've been doing it for a few years. So, this isn't, hey, I wanna get better success and better clients, and get it in the next 3 months. This is the long game where you're trying to find the ideal clients, and you're trying to find your ideal niche, which would be probably business owners that are selling their practice, and it's the longer game where you're getting to help solve the problems. Like, imagine, Jason, if you had ten people in front of you that says, hey, Jason, can you help me with succession and transition, I mean, you'd kinda light up like a Christmas tree and said, yeah, absolutely, I'd love to help you, talk to you about that. Talk about all the planning aspects, and put all the pieces together. And that's gonna bridge into, okay, now, I've got succession and transition issues, I've got also all these other planning issues for my company. It's when people are working on their business, you could see how you could solve some of these problems. All right? And so –
Jason Pereira: Excellent.
Grant Hicks: – that's what you wanna put yourself in front of. Imagine if you had a group of 10 or 15 business owners that says, hey, Jason, I need, I need your expertise and I need your help. That's what you're putting yourself in front of.
Jason Pereira: Excellent. Well, I mean, hard to disagree with anything you said and say, that's not necessary. I gotta tell you. It, uh, it makes a lot of sense. So, uh, before we wrap up, where can people find you if they're interested in looking?
Grant Hicks: Advisorpracticemanagement.com. Three words about, it's all together, advisorpracticemanagement.com. And grant@ghicks.com is the email address. So, if they wanted to, go to advisorpracticemanagement.com and there's a whole pile of resources. You can get a comprehensive practice management checklist there. You can get a, uh, benchmarking, which is used for financial advisors, but we also use benchmarking for business owners. And you can look at how benchmarking could be a, a tool to help people guide them, as well. So, there's a whole bunch of tools you can download for free at my website and go check 'em out. If you got any questions, feel free to email me.
Jason Pereira: Yeah. Benchmarking is a great way of seeing just how pretty your baby really is. Thank you.
Grant Hicks: Exactly.
Jason Pereira: Excellent. Grant, thank you so much for taking the time.
Grant Hicks: Excellent. Have a great day, Jason.
Jason Pereira: So, that was my conversation with Grant Hicks. Hope you enjoyed that. And, as always, if you enjoy this podcast, please leave a review on Apple Podcast, Sound Class, Stitcher, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast and until next time, take care.
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