Long Term Care with Jen Jacobs | E038

Protecting yourself, your family, and your nest egg in old age.

In this episode of Financial Planning for Canadian Business Owners, Jason Pereira, award-winning financial planner, university lecturer, and writer, interviews Jen Jacobs, an expert in long-term care insurance, about why long-term care insurance is important for business owners in particular.

Episode Highlights:

  • 1:04 - Jen Jacobs introduces herself and her profession in long-term care.

  • 3:54 - What triggers a long-term care event?

  • 6:24 - Jen compares long-term care to the other living benefits insurances (critical illness, disability).

  • 8:04 - Jason and Jen break down the impact of net worth into the need for different kinds of insurance.

  • 8:58 - Why is long-term care so drastically undersold?

  • 12:36 - How does the cost differ for long-term care for those at different stages of life?

  • 15:32 - Jason and Jen dive into the growing scenarios where people need to be looked after for long periods of time.

  • 16:33 - Jason tells the story of the first modern-government pension in Germany.

  • 18:43 - Is Jen’s viewpoint that people aren’t looking at living-benefit insurance early enough?

  • 23:46 - Jason breaks down the factors that have caused people to buy long-term care from him.

  • 26:00 - Jason and Jen give the takeaway message from all of this.

3 Key Points

  1. Long-term care insurance is only sold by a tiny portion of insurance agents in Canada, making it the most undersold type of insurance in the country.

  2. Canada has a fixation on fixed-premium insurance, compared to most other countries that have more variable-premium insurance.

  3. In today’s world, people live for so much time after their retirement compared to 100 years ago.

 

Tweetable Quotes:

  • “I always thought it was the neatest idea that you could spend a little bit to be protected.” - Jen Jacobs

  • “Activities of daily living is your ability to get on on your own...When somebody needs help with 2 activities, the claim is triggered.” - Jen Jacobs

  • “Many advisors haven’t brought it into their business and if they don’t mention it, nobody’s going to know about it.” - Jen Jacobs

  • “More often than not, this is thought about as a later-career stage type of coverage.” - Jason Pereira

  • “No one wants to insure a house on fire.” - Jason Pereira

Resources Mentioned:

Transcript:

Producer: Welcome to the Financial Planning for Canadian Business Owners podcast. You will hear about industry  insights with award-winning financial planner and entrepreneur, Jason Pereira. Through the interviews  with different experts, with their stories and advice, you will learn how you can navigate the challenges  of being an entrepreneur, plan for success and make the most of your business and life. And now your  host, Jason Pereira. 

Jason Pereira: Well, welcome. Today on the show I have Jen Jacobs, a well-known expert in long-term care insurance,  and I brought her on the show specifically to talk about what long-term care insurance is and how it can  be of importance or use to not just everybody, but specifically to business owners. And with that, here's  my interview with Jen. Jen. Thanks for joining me. 

Jen Jacobs: Thank you for having me. 

Jason Pereira: Yes, we got a little bit of some audio issue so you may sound like you're a bit of a little bit of a robotic  voice, but it's still going to be plenty of great wisdom here. So Jen Jacobs, tell us about who you are and  what it is you do. 

Jen Jacobs: Well, I would be called, I guess, the insurance consultant, but I have a specialization in long-term care.  I've been doing this for over 20 years and I started in the business when I was quite young and I found  out quite quickly how important this really was going to be. I always thought insurance was a fascinating  concept against the grain of most who may not feel like this, but I always thought it was the neatest idea  that you could spend a little bit to make sure that you were protected. I mean, basically everybody put  their money together in a pot and if somebody had a problem, you were going to be okay. I thought it  was just such a great, lovely idea as cheesy as that might sound, but it's true. So when I got into long term care, we had family history of illnesses and people being cared for, but very early in my career my  father got quite sick and my mom and I were the primary caregivers, although I have a big family,  fortunately, and through that caregiving, I mean, my whole career was on hold. 

Jen Jacobs: I was very close to having a hard time and not just financially, but of course emotionally. And if my  father hadn't had some coverage and it wasn't enough because he really only bought it to appease me,  we would have really had a big problem, more than we did. And I'll tell you being able to stand beside  him to the day he passed and I know my mom and I have talked about it since then a hundred times, but  it was great to be able to do that without money being our desperation and difficulty. And it wasn't the  same kind of burden that I know he put on me as he was very fearful to put. So because of that, I just  thought this was the greatest concept in the world. Do you mean you can buy insurance that pays you  when you're sick or injured, so you can stay in your own home and you don't have to burden your family  and you're not going to run out of money? This just seems like an absolutely amazing thing. And it is,  and that's what it is.

Jason Pereira: It is, but let's also talk about the reality of this. Long-term care insurance is of the different life and  health insurances that are out there. Life insurance, disability are critical ones, which we covered before  and long-term care is the most undersold product in this country. I remember being at a conference  once, this was years ago and the numbers haven't got any better, if that maybe got worse. And it was  like, I can't recall, a couple of hundred people in the room. And they said, "Okay, stand up if you sold a  life insurance policy in the last year." Of course it was all insurance advisors. So they all stood up. They  said, "Okay, stay standing if you've sold a critical illness policy and then it was down to 10% of the room.  And then it was, "Stay standing if you sold a disability policy." 

Jason Pereira: It was down to 5% of the room and it was, "Stay standing if you sold a long-term care insurance policy,"  and there were two of us left, and it was myself and another gentleman who basically bought it on  himself. So vastly undersold. So first off, let's talk about, because this is about insurance coverage and  specifically who it's going to help, talk about what triggers a long-term care event. Basically, what is it  we're insuring against? 

Jen Jacobs: Okay, so this is part of the reason I have such a passion for this coverage is because, to your point, there  are a lot of insurance coverages out there, but this is the only one I've ever found that is really based on  the individual's symptoms and their need for help versus their income, who's doing it, what condition  they have. So it's very encompassing. So the specific trigger on long-term care in general or loss of  independence is your inability to be independent and you need help with your normal daily activities or,  heaven forbid, cognitive impairment, which makes you require supervision ongoing because of safety,  inability, judgment, reasoning, orientation, that sort of thing. Now, most people would rather me say  this in very plain, non-insurance terms. So really what this means is this is the only policy that based on  the fact that you need help from another person. 

Jen Jacobs: So most of the time when people require care, whether it be because of, heaven forbid, a heart injury, a  stroke and natural aging, activities of daily living is your ability to get on on your own. So think about  your day. You get up, you have to go to the washroom, you get dressed, you get washed. So bathing,  transferring, toileting. These are the most common types of activities that people need help with in so  many environments, even young and old. So when somebody needs help with two activities, the claim is  triggered. That is what triggers the claim. My dad had cancer in his situation and yes, he was in a bed,  but he was not an invalid. He got up, he moved around and he was conscious, cognizant, but he did  need help. And that's where this pays. It's not too good to be true, but it pays when you need help  ongoing. 

Jason Pereira: It's interesting. So a couple of key points there. The bottom line is you need those types of help,  whether it's cognitive impairment or physical and those activities of daily living, you're going to receive a  benefit. Now, contrast this to the other forms I mentioned earlier. Life, you're dead, you're gone, right?  That's meant to pay for various things, including supporting your family, taxes and some tax planning  considerations, but the living benefits side, which is the other three, there's this real kind of weird  overlap between a lot of them, right? So disability insurance will protect you from becoming disabled, just like long-term care will. But the difference being that one ends at 65, typically, some of them have  lifetimes policies, but they're also defined around your ability to work, right? And this is the similar, but  different, right? Could you speak to the differences? 

Jen Jacobs: Well, and that's where I think a lot of business owners potentially are missing a mark on this type of  coverage. Disability insurance to your point is, well, the name disability gives some misconnotation  because the reality is disability is triggered by your inability to do the job that you insured as well as the  occupation, I mean, sorry, the income that you're collecting. So as a business owner, where we can run  into a pickle is if you have ongoing income that may continue, even if you're disabled and was going to  still be drawn, that could affect your ability to collect. There's also many business owners that have  established a business that could go forward without them there on a daily basis and still allow them to  draw income, let's say, and maybe that would not be applicable with a standard disability, but they  could be disabled in the sense of true disability, needing care from somebody and be collecting on long term care at the same time. 

Jen Jacobs: It's not related to your occupation or income. And often it will overlap on a shortfall of income with a  business owner or provide them with a transition benefit from working years to retirement, because we  have that gap with disability always. 

Jason Pereira: And then on top of that, you throw a critical illness, which you could have a critical illness, not have a  disability, not be cognitively impaired or not need long-term care. People often try to talk about using  one or the other. The reality is all three serve very different needs, similar but different. So don't think  one is going to do the job that the others aren't. Now you brought up an interesting point with business  owners in that you'll have other forms of income and the business will continue on and that might not  get you a pay off depending on the policy. The other issue is, too, is that you get to a certain level of net  worth, they're just not going to give it to you, right? I've seen that happen where basically, "Nope, your  net worth is too high. We're not going to issue disability insurance because financially you'll be fine."  Right? 

Jen Jacobs: Well, and to your point, really, we are trying to establish coverage for people in all scenarios that meet  their needs and requirements. And if that's the case, if I can say to somebody, "If you could retire  tomorrow, would you be financially impacted?" and they say, "No," I don't think I need to implement  disability into their portfolio. But if I say to them, "If you are paralyzed tomorrow and for 20 years need  index care needs of 80 to 100,000 a year, that millions of dollars would be impactful, then that's worth  protection." 

Jason Pereira: Yeah, exactly. I think it comes down to exactly. It's not so much about the impact is first off, you're losing  the human capital perspective. So you could basically lose a ton of income, but the income ends at a  certain point in the future. But what you're talking about specific is different long-term care is the  ongoing care need, which is enormous. So frankly, yeah. It's drastically undersold. So let's talk about that  for a sec. So why do you feel it's undersold? I've got my own working theories.

Jen Jacobs: Well, I would like to hear yours as well, because these are obviously theories because I don't have a  problem with it in the sense of I talk about it all the time because that's what I do, but it's my  specialization. So I sell lots of it. I never had an issue with it. It's common with my partnership advisors  and people I deal with because they have a point of reference and exposure. I think one main thing of  course is many advisors haven't brought it into their practice. And if they're not mentioning it, no one's  going to know about it. When you say long-term care insurance, there are really bad misinterpretations  of what that means. So people often think it means old age only or it means you're in a home. This has  nothing to do with being in a home. I'm going to pay you whether you're in your own home or in a  facility or a hospital, I don't care. That's not the point. This is to provide the additional money you need  when care is needed, which is generally between five and 10 grand a month if it's ongoing. 

Jason Pereira: Yep. And okay, so you haven't had that, but I'll tell you what I think. 

Jen Jacobs: Tell me, yes. 

Jason Pereira: What I think is a couple of things. First off, I think first, I think it's indicative in that the other ones that  are undersold, disability and critical illness, disability in particular, a couple of things. First off, I think a  lot of people are just basically they understand the concept of life insurance inherently because they've  heard it forever, right? And it's given away at work and everything else. And there's almost like an  expectation that, "Oh, I buy a house or I have a kid, I need to buy life insurance." That is almost, whether  it be commercials or their parents, I don't know how they got it, but there's an understanding there. The  other forms are not understood as well. Secondly, it's easier to underwrite life insurance. It is. The  underwriting process is more strenuous for the other three. 

Jason Pereira: Third, Canada's an interesting country in that we have a fixation on fixed premium insurance whereas  other countries there's a lot more variable premium insurance sold out there. Long-term care, as you  know, does not have a full term of life fixed premium. There are adjustments potentially. I think that turns off a lot of people just for lack of security. I'm not really sure why. And then the last part is that the  reality is, is that it can be quote unquote expensive on the outside, I think. So I think you have a  conspiracy of all these things coming together, plus it being newer, relatively speaking, to every other  form of insurance. And let's just be honest. We know that insurance advisors fall into a couple of  categories. There are plenty that will do the right job and do the research and know what you need and  sell you what it is you need, but they maybe don't sell every form of insurance. 

Jason Pereira: There are those who do all of it. And then there's those who are just looking for the quick hit to move  on, right? Sell the quick term insurance policy. How much you have to spend? Great, this is the biggest  thing I can get you. Move on. And you can get term insurance issued, guaranteed standard issue with no  medicals these days on up to a million dollars in some cases, right? So they're looking for the quick term.  This is a longer, I'm sure you can attest, longer underwriting process on average.

Jen Jacobs: A hundred percent. It can be. And again, that's where many advisers know that to be true and where it  can be difficult because it can be long and tedious. And using a specialist can really help with that  because of the medical side or at the very least doing diligence in advance of the underwriting, because  you have to. There's no option for this. If we don't do that, then you're going to run into really long  processes. But yes, definitely more difficult to get than life insurance, which is a boast to get it earlier. 

Jason Pereira: That's all true. But that's the other problem, right? More often than not, this is thought about as a later  career stage type of coverage, right? So we're talking about post-65, people start thinking, "Well, oh no,  I'm starting to face my mortality. I'm not going to live forever. I have maybe another 10, 15, 20 years  before I need some sort of care. I should look to insure it now." Right? I think that's a natural human  reaction. Talk to me about how the cost differs when someone, say, who's 70 versus someone, say,  who's 50 looks at something like this. 

Jen Jacobs: Well, again, you know what, this is the hard thing, because maybe I'm a little Mary Poppins with my  insurance views, which I know I am, but it's all about the length of time that you're going to be spending  as well. Right? I bought my policy when I was in my 30s. I am presumably going to pay much longer than  somebody who bought it in their 50s or in their 70s. So on the cost of really input, it's hard for me to say  that or say exactly how I feel, but the cost difference, it is manageable, but here's where I don't think  enough people understand. Long-term care doesn't just come in one way. So there's two actual types of  long-term care. So when I get clients that are older and cost is a factor, what we're looking at is policies  that have a longer waiting period and things like that to reduce those costs. And to your point, those  people have saved up. We're not trying to protect anymore for these short-term ailments and income  loss like we were with disability or critical illness. 

Jen Jacobs: We're really worried about that longevity risk and impacting the family or their assets. So something  that has a one-year waiting period that literally costs 30 or 40% less has never really been looked at  because people haven't thought of it like that. But that is where the difference in that cost can really  come from. And there are also other features that have been added that, again, can be very  mathematically sound and worth consideration, not right for every person but consideration, are the  return of premium on death factors on those policies. Those policies, if you, to your point, there is some  limitations on the premium guarantee, but sometimes they're putting on the guaranteed return of  premium. Even if there was adjustment, there is a hundred percent protection in the capital put into  that policy, whether you collect or you don't. So there are some safeguards to make sure. 

Jason Pereira: It's interesting. I mean, I have mixed feelings on return to premium. I mean, depending on the product,  some of them, I'm not a big fan of return of premium on debt. To me, it's just like buying a little bit more  insurance every month, life insurance every month. And I don't think it's really that relevant to me.  Return of premium on DI policies where it pays you every couple of years, those can be very lucrative if  you stay healthy. Now further your point, though, about you have a year with long waiting period to  produce the premium. And I think this is a fundamental thing that I think a lot of people got to wrap their heads around. And I think, as we know, there's a somewhat of a general aversion to the concept of  insurance in the world. My previous comment with [inaudible 00:14:46] was Zack Goldman. 

Jason Pereira: He basically had someone once say, "Just call it something else. Just call it anything else at this point,"  because everybody always thinks of the car insurance company not wanting to pay them out or the  home insurance company giving them a hard time. And yet we life and health people get painted with  the same brush, even though I've never had a claim issue in my life. So basically you have that. Now the  waiting period on a year is perfect, or if not longer, is perfect from the standpoint of what we're really  trying to protect against is not a small, incremental loss. We're trying to basically take care of, as you  said, the longevity risk. So you have a semi-catastrophic event, right? You have an event that basically  makes you unable to take care of yourself, but you're still going to be around for a long time. Right? And  that's really the risk, right, is that you're going to basically, and you want to be around for a long time  assuming you're cognitive, the reality is that's going to be a long and expensive road. 

Jen Jacobs: And with medical advancements, there are twofold to that. A, people are, of course, living longer with  things, surviving things that they wouldn't have so there is that true, longer risk to longevity, but  something you said earlier about qualifying, as we get more advanced with medical, they're going to be  able to see things much faster, which is going to make it harder to get as we go forward without  question. So I can't stress enough how things are going to change. And we need to take advantage of  these things for planning. And I don't think this bubble of long-term care chaos is going to be there  forever once our population shifts and things like that. But we've got another 20 or 35 years, minimum,  of this potential financial impactful consequence of living too long. 

Jason Pereira: Yep. And it's only getting, it's funny. This was the year, I think, it was the first year ever or the first year  in a long time that there was a decrease in mortality tables in the US largely due to the opioid crisis. But  barring that, there's only one direction that thing goes, right? There is only one direction that thing goes.  And just to explain to people how different things are the story I always tell is the story of the first  government pension, modern government pension, which was Otto von Bismarck and the German state  who basically in the 1800s launched a government pension that was originally targeted at people, I think  it was 67 and then moved to 65. And it was basically meant for people who could not... It wasn't meant  to, so you can go on vacation. That wasn't it, right? It was meant for, "Oh my God, you're so old and  decrepit, you can't work anymore. We have to give you something." So it was like old age security and  GIS combined, but what people don't understand. 

Jason Pereira: So that was 65 and our retirement age has never changed from that. If you were to have adjusted that  retirement age to mortality gains, the number would be somewhere somewhere between 93 and 98. So  the reality is, is back then people who made it to 65 could expect to live not very long, couple of years, a  couple of years, and now people make it 65. We're talking at life expectancies of, was is it 84 for women,  almost 80 for men? And I always remind people, "Let's not forget that life expectancy is an average. So  50% probability you go beyond that." The joint probability on a couple of having at least one person live  past 95 is like 10% now, pretty close to it. So we're going to be around. Most of us are going to be around for a while, barring incident and COVID, but we ain't staying healthy that entire time. So it's a  challenge. 

Jen Jacobs: Yeah. With people living longer, they have this inability to plan, of course, but you're going to be, if  you're a business owner and you get to retire at 55 because you've amassed a significant estate and  your portfolio is great, you're going to be retired longer than you worked. 

Jason Pereira: Well, I'll tell you. So this is a funny story. I actually wrote an article mentioning this. My wife is the  teacher's pension plan's greatest enemy. She is scheduled to retire early, like at 54 or something like  that. And her grandmother lived to be 106 years and six months. 

Jen Jacobs: That's what I mean. I mean, that's crazy to think. And you are in the planning. It's not really, you can't  really get your head around it, but that's why this is so important and how impactful it can be in the  long-term especially index plans. You buy a policy that's indexed at the age of 50, that's 100 grand a year  of benefit. And it's indexed for life. By the time you get to 90, it's worth 250,000 a year. I mean, you  couldn't do that. 

Jason Pereira: So is your viewpoint just generally that people aren't looking at this early enough? 

Jen Jacobs: Yes. But in saying that as much as I love insurance, everybody has priorities and in very few situations  between the age of 40 and 55 will a client have longterm care, disability, critical illness, life insurance,  because there are transitions in these. And disability, often what I'll do is try to get a piece of a long term care started discussed in those years, because their disability is going to end and we can reallocate  those dollars effectively rather than trying to just always overlap. But the sooner we do it, the absolutely  without question more value. And you said something earlier about that meeting room with stand up if  you own long-term care or sell long-term care and nobody did. And I've done that of course in talking to  advisors saying like, "How many clients have you talked to about this?" And nobody has. 

Jen Jacobs: I said, "Okay, let's reverse this. And let's say, I said, you had a business owner that walked into your  office who is 58 years old. And 10 years ago they met me and I sold them long-term care insurance. And  so when they come into your new office and you were meeting them and you ask them what they have  and they say, 'Oh, well, I have this policy. I only have 15 years off to pay because it's limited payment  and it covers me unlimited for 150,000 indexed for life,'" would you tell them to cancel it? And they  advise 

Jason Pereira: Depends on how credible the advisor is, but yeah. I mean, you're absolutely right. 

Jen Jacobs: Gigantic asset for his retirement. You could never match that. How could you not sell that or talk about  it? 

Jason Pereira: I think you're right. I think, when we do our entire insurance presentation, we go over every form that's  out there. And we basically, first thing I say is, "Okay, we're going to talk about some unfortunate  things." Second thing I say is, "By the way, you're not going to get all of this because if you got all of this,  you'd have take another job out just to pay for it all. And that's not what I'm after." So yeah. So I mean,  at the end of the day, it comes down to where are you going to allocate money to the biggest hottest  issue, right? And I would say you're probably right in that I think for the most part, I think maybe  disability policies carry on for too long, especially if you've got an ROP on it. 

Jason Pereira: If you're basically looking at, say, a ROP coming to you with five to six years left, you're 59, 60, and  you're hopefully by then, quote unquote, solvent enough that your retirement is a very real reality with  very little deviation, then getting rid of the DI policy and looking at long-term care is probably a very  smart move as a business owner. 

Jen Jacobs: Simply reallocation of that risk. And that business owner wants to make a calculated decision on the risk  at hand, right? I mean, if they go buy all new computers and the computers are worth 100 grand, they're  going to insure them for a couple of thousand dollars a year. This is the same concept. You're coming  into retirement, reallocating those dollars to an insurable risk that's impactful. 

Jason Pereira: Yep. Agreed, agreed. And if anything, as we said, it's the time to transition, right? There's going to be a  stage where the DI becomes less important, the LTC becomes more important. And it just so happens  that people probably think that happens too late, but it also happens at a stage where it still remains  relatively affordable all things considered. Because I mean, it gets pretty pricey when you start going to  these things with people in their 70s, because at that point there's not much time for claim, right? So,  it's the old people ask me, why is it so expensive? It's like, well, let's put it this way. No one wants to  insure a house on fire. And I'm not saying you're on fire. You're not on fire. Let's say that you have a  cabin in the mountains in California that are very much known for fires. You're not on fire, but the  probability of you being on fire is increased. 

Jen Jacobs: There's only one. And when I started, I'm not exaggerating, my second case of long-term care when I  was brand new, so young, met her. Her name was Shirley and she was 72 years old when I met her. I  went to go talk about long-term care. And just as you said, it's very expensive. Shirley didn't have a lot of  money. I met with her three times before she bought it because she said, "Should I do it?" And I said,  "Look, I know if you don't buy it and something happens, you're going to be in big trouble. If you do buy  it and the money that you're paying out starts to cause you to be upset or uncomfortable, then I don't  know how I'm doing justice to your life here, but let's try it." We applied. Shirley decided to go with it,  which was great. Less than two years. It was literally, I sold it to her in June of that year and by  December, I got a notice that Shirley was diagnosed with terminal cancer and was given six months to live. She only paid for six months and that woman collected for six years straight. It was one of my  longest claims and she only paid for six months. 

Jason Pereira: There you go. 

Jen Jacobs: So you never know. That's the thing about insurance. 

Jason Pereira: Well, I've had that conversation all the time. It's like, "Oh, this is going to be a terrible return." I said,  "Yeah, if you die at 100, it's terrible return." And actually, is it really because compared to GIC rates, it's  guaranteed? I said, "You walk out of here, get hit by a car tomorrow, it is a bigger return than your  lottery ticket in most cases." So, and this ain't the lottery. This is guaranteed. So it doesn't matter when  it happens, for lack of a better term, it's not a lottery ticket, but you're buying a lottery ticket that's  guaranteed to pay. I wish the lottery tickets were guaranteed to pay, unfortunately they're not. 

Jen Jacobs: Yeah. I wish everybody took their lottery, those people that spend money every week, took that money  and applied to this because you'd have better odds and more [inaudible 00:23:37] results. 

Jason Pereira: Yeah. And yeah, more version. Yeah. It's exactly what I was thinking. And I'll say one other area I've sold  into in the past in this, I actually have had more success than not is, is in people who, two things, they've  had a combination of personal experience where this sort of thing happened. They saw their cost and  they're like, "Whoa, I need some help with this." And then the second factor was these people  legitimately had the financial capacity to handle it. It wasn't about that. It was about capital preservation  for the estate. They had seen how much of the parents' financial nest egg had been and their eventual  inheritance had been whittled away by all these care costs and said, "You know what? I would rather  basically preserve it." So, we've talked about life insurance, but they opted for the longterm care in  particular because a lot of these come with care coordination. So support from professionals to turn to  on a dime if basically something goes wrong, right? You have that extra kind of expertise now that that  helps you navigate the system. 

Jen Jacobs: And that's worth more than people understand because anyone going through it, just talking to an  advisor yesterday, trying to get their mother [inaudible 00:00:24:39], she was sleeping on her floor for  five days because she couldn't get someone to come and help, didn't know who to call. Care  coordination is expensive and difficult and more importantly, as people age, it's often a single person  needing the care because they've lost their partner and they need an advocate in order to maneuver or  they're not going to get better or the proper service. 

Jason Pereira: Yep. It's part of the same value proposition that I give. It's like not only is it all the stuff I do for financial  planning and everything else, it's a simple fact that when anything hits the fan, you got to pick up the phone. Right? And especially financially. Some of the crazy stuff that I have thrown my way that clients  wouldn't expect me to be able to help with, it's quite interesting because even if I can't help with it, I  typically have a decent idea where to go. But in most cases, it's that reassurance, like I said, basically  part of my value proposition is a form of insurance that you have that person in your corner to call. 

Jen Jacobs: Well and a lot of business owners that are at risk, if something really happened to them financially, a  very significant impact, they need to consider this because it's a solution to a problem they have. A lot  of, let's say, more established or affluent business owners look at this as an opportunity to diversify the  portfolio and financially plan effectively. But they're the same needs, it's just there. And it could be  applicable in both situations. 

Jason Pereira: But the bottom line is, if people are listening to this, and there's two groups of people listen to this that  I've been told financial advisors, big surprise, and business owners, thankfully, hitting my target demo,  so I think the takeaway message from all this is advisors need to talk about this more, educate  themselves on it more. And there aren't that many products out there in the market, right? There's only  a handful. There are some interesting twists in dynamics [involved and 00:00:26:12] differences that we  need to educate ourselves on. Jen might be a good resource for that, just saying. And then secondly is as  business owners, yeah, especially if you're in that kind of sweet spot of you got into a certain level,  you're probably around it in your 50s probably. 

Jason Pereira: The DI is still a value, but you've maybe built that nest egg. And that's kind of like the sweet spot for me.  But frankly it applies. It's a conversation that should be had across the board, across the board. And if  there was one of those things where if there was fiduciary responsibility put upon insurance advisors, it  would have to be had. So let's just act like that anyway. 

Jen Jacobs: Exactly. Just mention it. And you know what? People can make informed choices and it may not be  immediate, but it's in your head now and things as they come up, at least you can refer back and not  think there isn't an option for this because there really is. And there's a fabulous one and it's going to be  gone sooner than I hope it will. It's not going to be here forever. 

Jason Pereira: Well, I think you're right, because I think the liability of the insurance companies is bigger than they  understand, which has been proven in the States and other cases. And also it's not selling enough. It  needs to sell more. 

Jen Jacobs: That's our saving grace, because I think if it was mass sold, I think they would have changed it by now. 

Jason Pereira: Well, they changed it up years ago. They pulled back on a lot of the benefits. They made it more  prohibitive, but we might see it get more prohibitive in the future. So strike while the iron is hot.  Anyway, Jen, this has been great. Thank you very much for your time. Where can people find you? 

Jen Jacobs: You can reach me at J Jacobs at LTCI, so long-term care insurance consulting, dot ca. You can reach me  www.jenniferjacobs.ca or my number, the office number is (905) 829-4984. And we're there if you need  any help. 

Jason Pereira: Thank you very much for your time. 

Jen Jacobs: Okay. Have a good one. 

Jason Pereira: Appreciate it. So that was this week's episode of Financial Planning for Canadian Business Owners. I  hope you enjoyed that. And I hope you enjoyed understanding and learning more about a seldom  discussed and poorly understood form of insurance that could be of incredible, tangible benefit,  especially when the unforeseen and the things you hope to avoid in old age do happen. It's going to  happen to more of us. As always, if you enjoyed this podcast, please leave a review on iTunes, Stitcher,  or wherever you get your podcasts and take care. 

Producer: This podcast was brought to you by Woodgate Financial, an award-winning financial planning firm,  catering to high net worth individuals, business owners, and their families. To learn more, go to  woodgate.com. You can subscribe to this podcast on Apple podcasts, Stitcher, Google Play, and Spotify,  or find more episodes at jasonpereira.ca. You can even ask Siri, Alexa or Google Home to subscribe for  you.

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