Health Spending Accounts | E122

Health Spending Accounts | E122

Understanding Health Spending Accounts for Canadian Business Owners with Steve McEwen Join host Jason Pereira as he welcomes Steve McEwen from My HSA to discuss defined contribution benefit programs, commonly known as health spending accounts in Canada. This episode covers the fundamentals of HSAs, how they differ from traditional benefits plans, and their uses for business owners of various sizes. Learn about the flexibility of HSAs, how they can be paired with traditional insurance, and key considerations for businesses. Dive deep into the technical setup, employer and employee benefits, potential tax implications, and the role of advisors in facilitating these plans. Tune in for expert insights and practical advice to optimize your business's benefits strategy. 00:00 Introduction to Financial Planning for Canadian Business Owners 00:19 Understanding Health Spending Accounts (HSAs) 01:47 Comparing HSAs to Traditional Benefits Programs 04:48 Integrating Insurance with HSAs 08:25 Privacy and Legal Considerations 11:28 Using HSAs as a Supplement to Traditional Plans 18:30 Cost and Setup of HSAs 29:58 Fraud Prevention and Technological Integration 30:29 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Resources Mentioned:

Full Transcript

Pod - Copy of Health Spending Accounts | Financial Planning For Canadian Business Owners - 122

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Jason Pereira: [00:00:00] Hello, welcome to financial planning for Canadian business owners. I'm your host, Jason Pereira. And today on the show, I have Steve McEwen of My HSA. I brought Steve on the show today to talk about defined contribution benefits programs, specifically better known as health spending accounts in Canada. So let's get started.

Steve, thanks for taking the time today.

Steve McEwan: Hello listeners. Thanks for having me, Jason happy to be here. So what we do at my HSA is we basically built a turnkey platform for advisors only, so we don't go direct to the end clients

all things spending accounts. So I love that you term it the name defined contribution because that's probably a better terminology Because there can be lots of different names And these accounts are used in different ways, but basically anything that an employer wants to reimburse for Expenses either some are taxable some are [00:01:00] non taxable can be done through the platform ~. ~And we're completely bootstrapped. So it was just myself and my business partner at that time, Tim Cain, and decided we needed a solution for ourselves. Started to build it out and then kind of quickly, other advisors started asking us about using the platform. And that's kind of when the light bulb went off.

So not just employee benefit advisors, but financial advisors, life advisors, anyone who basically had a business client was a good kind of advisor to use the platform.

Jason Pereira: Okay, so let's talk about how these contrast to traditional benefits programs. So traditional benefits programs people are pretty familiar with them You know, you have an insurance carrier and you submit claims and there may be a deductible There's a reimbursement percentage that happens with them and there's limits on a lot of benefits specifically around paramedical I can't go to the [00:02:00] chiropractor an infinite number of times.

I can't get an infinite number of massages You know, I basically have those limits You know talk to me about how Defined contribution or health spending account programs differ from Traditional benefits programs if they are used as a substitute because they can also be used As an add on, so let's talk about the substitute exactly.

Steve McEwan: Yeah, so cra has a list of eligible expense items That list is actually the same list that you have available as a medical expense tax credit. So the METC list, they said, okay, you can reimburse off the same list. So that makes it easy.

And then the employer can essentially just give the employee a set dollar amount. Let's say it's 500 or 1, 000. And that employee can go out and claim anything that's on the list. The list would cover everything that you would think is in a traditional plan, but probably include some things that aren't included in a [00:03:00] traditional plan.

And it's as simple as that. So you give the employee 500 and they can go spend it on the dentist, eye exams, and a massage. All in one spot and you just it's defined contribution So basically the employee has five hundred dollars to spend and the employer's never out more than five hundred traditional plans operate a little bit more under like the Insurance model where there's a premium and every year you're going to renew it based on claim activity so it can be a little bit of a roller coaster For the renewals on the insurance plans, where this is kind of dollar certainty on what the expense will be So that's kind of for a small business owner what's appealing to these and then the employees on the flip side different employees will have different needs so they just get a lump sum amount and they can spend it as they see fit It's not so much regimented x amount on [00:04:00] physio there's no dental, et cetera.

Jason Pereira: Yeah. So, I mean, it's back to the traditional term, which we can term to be defined benefit. The benefits are clearly defined as to what you get. And there's an insurance factor that, you know, if the entire pool spends more money than the insurance company was planning on, well, that employer is going to see a higher renewal.

So you have that. And what you're saying is that this function is like a bank, a special bank account that effectively allows people to spend on whatever they please. So 500, a thousand, whatever the employer says they're willing to spend, but it doesn't have to end there, right?

Like we can also put in place other insurance benefits within this to protect people in the event of big exposures to health and medicine.

Steve McEwan: Yeah. So, and this is probably one of the most. Uncommon, I'm wondering because it's like common to us and our advisors, but it's still probably relatively uncommon is you can pay for Catastrophic hospitalization plans is what CRA says.

So basically [00:05:00] You can pay for a catastrophic drug plan in a health spending account, so typically if a client or a company wanted to still have the assurance of insurance meaning there there's some comfort in it where if it's catastrophic their financial needs are met totally fine.

You can go buy a plan So like a personal insurance plan, so one that you would see with manulife ~you know any any type of carrier ~blue cross would have one those premiums are actually eligible to be run through a health spending account and then a lot of ~You ~Providers just like we do, they'll offer a catastrophic insurance above and beyond the health spending account.

So travel would be an example or high cost drugs would be an example. Because there's a need for insurance. Like we've, we've always come into the industry saying we truly believe insurance. [00:06:00] But for most traditional plans for health and dental, that's not insurance. So like, if you think of it like a home insurance policy, you don't go insure your toaster.

Because it's not a high enough dollar amount, you'll see vision, for example, being taken out of the traditional and just self insuring it through this model, because you can only spend 250 typically a year in most plans. So you actually don't need insurance for that.

The employer just needs to reimburse it and have it set up, you know, with some sort of structure. ~And it's the same tax consequence, it's been in it. It's tax free to the employee and the employer can write it off. ~

Jason Pereira: Yeah. I mean, effectively it makes sense. What you're doing is ~you're, ~you have something that can use as a.

Spending account, but then you can layer on insurance. And what you're doing there is that insurance is going to be a lot cheaper, right? Because what you're really doing is you're creating a high deductible policy, a very high deductible policy, right? It could be, you know, I don't know what the minimums are, but typically see around 1500 to 2000.

So if the insurance company is not basically swallowing dollar one, the cost of [00:07:00] providing that catastrophic insurance, so that high cost insurance is a lot lower, right?

Steve McEwan: And honestly, if you look, and again, this is getting into the weeds and the employee benefits space, but that's literally what even with an insurance company, that's what they do.

~They basically with drug pooling, they'll, they'll essentially all the insurance companies came together and said, let's do drug pooling. So after a certain threshold, we're going to share our losses. And then they actually charge you a drug pooling charge for that. That concept is done at the highest level and then you could do it down to this level.~

~ And it's, ~it's a concept with insurance, like on the property and casualty side, they call this like captives where they just kind of layer the insurance and it makes, it just makes a lot of sense depending on where your risk tolerance is.

Jason Pereira: Yep. So makes perfect sense. So I mean, effectively what you're doing is with that kind of model is you're basically saying here, do whatever, you know, so model one, just all you guys, the spending account employer is going to basically do X and have it paid for.

Now, one important point I want to make here is I've come across employers who basically make this mistake often. A lot of times employers will sometimes, because they don't know. Will say you know what i'm not going to do about this plan. It's too expensive But just bring me the receipt and ~i'll give you ~i'll reimburse you for your expense Can you explain why that is not something they should be [00:08:00] doing?

Steve McEwan: Once you just sit down and walk them through it. And we've got resources on it. They quickly realize why that's probably not a great idea. So, you have an employer employee relationship.

The minute you're, handing over private medical receipts, and I always use the analogy, so there's two problems. One is that you see the information which could be used against you as an employer. Maybe they really stink at their job and you have to fire them in two months. Now you've seen some information that they could or want to try and use against you.

But the, and I almost think the more important issue with it is that they probably have medical expenses that they would love to get reimbursed, but they don't want you to see it. So they're not giving you all of their actual eligible medical receipts because they don't want you to see it.

So having that kind of third party processing system, it just makes a lot of [00:09:00] sense. And then there is some debate that you actually need a third party to process it. But honestly, ~like I haven't ~There's is large companies that do it and I think you're technically from CRA's perspective allowed to do it, but it just makes ~no like ~no sense and the other reason why it wouldn't make a lot of sense is The cost of these things, like whether it's with us or anyone is so low to get access to a platform, processing the claims experience for the employees.

Good. You've got customer support, the movement of money's clean. So for accounting purposes, and then because we only use advisors, we would argue that you get the system for this small cost. But you also get that advisor's expertise. So again, we just do the spending account, but many advisors will have expertise in all group benefits.

Maybe they do some pension, you know, whether it's [00:10:00] a financial planner where that's their expertise. So they can provide value in tons of other areas, as well as ~kind of ~advise you on the spending account. So it's for, and I mean, ~like, so ~we charge. It's just the percentage of claim on what is claimed.

So typically you'll see 10 percent no set up fees, no annual

Jason Pereira: ~fees. Cut out a couple of issues. So yeah, the, ~the entire going back to the why you wouldn't want to do the reimbursement. It's again, it's a privacy issue, potential violation of your privacy, depending on how you look at it. And I'm not clear exactly on what the legality of it is, but that's exposed both, both sides, right?

Now I also want to talk about kind of the third way to do it. Which is basically as an add on to a nutritional group plan, right? So you may have a traditional group plan that basically has deductibles and things that are not covered But that I mean if an employer's willing to they can always throw one of these on top as a supplement to everything else ~Can they not?~

Steve McEwan: Totally. So like for example a small business will very rarely have orthodontics, but [00:11:00] anyone who has, kids at a certain age, like those costs can be huge. So one option they can do is you might have a traditional plan that might cover basic and major dental. And then ~again, because you might ~orthodontics is super expensive.

So you might not want to give them orthodontics. You can certainly Add a health spending account that can be used for that type of coverage the other thing is a lot of vision plans won't cover employees for the full amount for glasses.

Like we both wear glasses. ~They're, ~they're much more expensive than a typical plan covers. And then two, what happens with vision? ~Why it's kind of like a contentious issue and benefits is ~if you don't have glasses, then you're essentially paying for coverage for the employees that do have it. The nice thing about a spending account, if it's in a top up manner, is ~you ~Those ~that have ~that need the vision can use it there and then say you've got needs for chiropractor You can use it there So it's kind of like a good catch all especially as a top up to ~kind of ~[00:12:00] let the employees use it where they see fit ~And ~traditional it's very regimented where this can be very open ended But you can narrow it down to specific items if you want.

So that's kind of been a unique thing ~You that we've seen happen in the industry ~where basically you can cover just orthodontics if you want, or you can cover just vision if you want, or you can go down to maybe where we're really starting to see some interesting things in the DEI space is like specific buckets of money for specific areas of interest from employers.

So the ability is like you said, define contribution means you can just split up a defined contributions for whatever needs you need. And then you can actually just figure out, is that a non taxable expense or a taxable one, because we also do, and others now in the industry do a taxable thing. So [00:13:00] that can be gym memberships.

Head insurance, like basically anything the employer is really passionate about.

Jason Pereira: I will say this much about those employee kind of like spending accounts in that regard If they're not health related then that as you said is a taxable benefit to the employee So they may spend a hundred dollars on the gym But a hundred dollars is going to show up as a benefit on their plan

it's like that's the same thing as just giving them a raise right There's a psychological aspect of saying oh my employer covers all of this, but you know brass tacks It's window dressing totally that makes people happy and it's a behavioral aspect fine But when it comes down to numbers that stuff is just the same thing as straight comp

Steve McEwan: I could not agree more and could not disagree more with the actual like value of them because Again, so the story I always tell people.

So when I first started in the industry, we did a health spending account in house paper based, it was total garbage. Like it was terrible. That's kind [00:14:00] of like why we built the platform. And I had a large client who, we were doing the health spending account for them, it was large home builder. And I was in their office one day for a renewal and they said, we do a wellness spending account.

You guys do a health spending account mechanically. It looks like the same thing. Can't you do it? And I come back from accounting and I said, we could do it. I could charge you, but it makes zero sense. You can just track this on the spreadsheet. They said, ~well, That's fair, but the cost is not huge and same.~

~It's not a privacy issue, but it's the same thing is ~they don't want to deal with, every employee bringing receipts to them what happens on a wellness spending account as they start to go well. Valley's yoga got covered, but Johnny wants his bike covered. ~So it's like, it's constant fighting. ~So they can't just set up a plan.

~Outsourcing the ~

Jason Pereira: ~admin. If you want to do that sort of thing, ~I get it, but you know, I remember I did have an employee once come to say, Hey, you know, you can do this. I'm like, yeah. Do you know that that's the same thing as taxable income? And that basically, if I just give you that raise, it's the same thing.

~And they're just like. Really? It's taxable income. So I think it's fun. But ~

Steve McEwan: ~if you give them, but ~if you give them 200, they will not value it as much as you [00:15:00] buying or supporting a bunch of, I totally agree. Cause like the math makes sense, but it's way more value.

Jason Pereira: Also, it was also an insurance aspect of that.

If they don't spend it, then they don't get that pay versus the actual pay. And the other thing too, ~is basically ~when individuals make choices to, because some of these programs will allow you to allocate one to the other.

Like, hey, you have a thousand bucks, allocate between the both. And people think of the immediate cost as opposed to the medical concern, which may happen. And next thing you know, they've blown it all on the gym and personal training. And then they have a medical event. And now they're like, oh boy, like I could have really used that for, for that.

Now you can make the argument that's money and money, it's equal dollars, forget the tax implications. On some level, there's a bit of a paternalistic side to insurance when it comes to your employees. And sometimes you need to structure things in a way that prevents them from blowing in the wrong things.

~But that's just, you know, my sub box. ~

Steve McEwan: ~I, and ~I, Totally agree with that. It's too bad that it's literally a CRA issue. Cause it's like, we get that argument all the time. It's like, well, how do I know what I should put in my wellness account versus my spending [00:16:00] account? Cause I don't know if I'm going to get in a car accident.

And we say like, totally makes sense, but it's a CRA, like you have to allocate. But that's where I do think, ~and again, ~you're limited on business size and budget. This is where I think the argument would be ~like ~the best solution is you can be paternalistic and actually have insurance where you need it.

You know, like something like disability insurance, like the best disability insurance is one that never actually needed. So, you're paying a lot of money for something, but you really don't ever want to need it. ~So the employer can kind of. ~Ideally with a good advisor, they can pick and choose where they want to be paternalistic.

And then with these more flexible accounts, it's kind of like ~this is where, ~this is where they get to check some of ~the, ~the boxes for employees, which is extremely hard because you have multi generations in the workforce, like an older generation might enjoy the, traditional plans, but the younger they [00:17:00] look, they look at a traditional plan, a younger generation and go.

~This is completely useless. ~So if you're not doing. Like a flex or wellness style stuff you're missing this whole target ~and they do like it That's why that employee came to you and said hey, do you know you can do it?~

Jason Pereira: Yeah, ~no, ~and I get it and again, it's the entire they just want to feel like they're getting something of value As opposed to something they're never going to use.

~However, there is a paternalistic side of that, but we'll get well We'll leave that alone. So ~talk about I cut you off earlier Let's go and talk about what it costs to do something like this. So you charge an administration fee of 10 correct?

Steve McEwan: Yeah, like just like any other kind of ~like You ~Business, I'd say you can do it a bunch of ways and people in ~the industry and ~our industry do it a bunch of ways.

~So majority of kind of like ~majority of providers do it like us, where you just pay a percentage and admin fee on what is claimed. Some people will charge a set up fee. Some people will charge a renewal fee. Ours is just a fee on claim. ~There's a few providers. I don't think there's any left ~

Jason Pereira: ~now.~

I've seen different models, but the market clearing price around this seems to be somewhere around 10 percent for administrative charges.

Steve McEwan: Yeah. And you might see different like, so if it's more tech heavy, you're going to be like 10%. If it's low, like [00:18:00] there is still some paper providers that will do it like as low as five.

~It just kind of, but again, these aren't huge, huge numbers. And then ~the odd time you've seen a couple of tech companies try kind of a SAS, like a per employee per month model. ~ ~

Jason Pereira: Pretty rare in the space. I'd say. So you have that model then, but then advisor compensations on top of ~that. So the one that you're working, the person you're working with to get paid on this.~

~I mean, the, the person that the business is working with could get paid on this. But then in addition to ~that. There's also taxes on this, right? So there's premium tax on this. There's provincial sales tax on this, despite the fact provincial sales tax got integrated to HST. This did not.

So all said and done, like what's the typical range all in that you typically see, you know, and I'm costing ~a, ~an employer across Canada.

Steve McEwan: Definitely changes. Cause like here in Alberta, you would just ~have the five person, like you'd ~have the 10% Plus the 5%, but it's only on the admin fee. And in Ontario, it's completely like there's an RST that's charged on the claim amount.

And so, you know, you'll range from like, again, your admin fees, typically 10 percent and then ~your, ~your taxes ~on top, ~on top of that [00:19:00] can be, I'd say from five to 15 would be the average, I guess, with Ontario, Ontario is the highest, ~like that's the one, but you also have ~

Jason Pereira: ~Right. So like, yeah, I've seen it like 15 to the low twenties.~

Right. So I think it's, you know, and I think it's important. I'm bringing this up in particular because, you know, I see a lot of people say it's always just 10%, it's 10 percent plus plus. And by the time you work it out, let's just be straight. You're absolutely telling the truth. It's 10%. And you know, it's about full disclosure.

So frankly that may, people may say, well, hold on 20 cents on the dollar. That seems like a bit much, but it really isn't when we do the math. on basically what this means after tax, right? So, I mean, if I was to, pay someone money that they would then use to pay for medical needs and medical purposes, it would go to their marginal tax rate, and that marginal tax rate, unless you're at the lowest tax rate imaginable, or, making X to nothing, at below the lowest marginal tax rate at the exemption amount, odds are that there is a savings there to the end user.

~There is. Yeah, ~

Steve McEwan: ~exactly. So, and again, that's, ~we've had that conversation hundreds of times with advisors kind of saying like, associate Ontario, [00:20:00] they're like, Oh, ~that's like real, ~that's like a heavy tax hit. And we said, we agree and do the math, have the accountant do the math. And they still come out.

They're like, yeah, it's not as good, but it's still. An advantage compared to top

Jason Pereira: bracket. It's like a 30 delta, right?

Steve McEwan: Yeah, and then to like ~because even with the ~because I think a lot of advisors ~Good and do maybe ~compare to the medical exempt tax credit

Jason Pereira: And

Steve McEwan: even that one because it's not like an hsa if you think about it's like first dollar where that one is ~a ~A percentage of income, so it's just basically the math,

Jason Pereira: It's, yeah, so the, it's got to be a big claim relative to lower relative to your income and, you know, people are like, oh, I'll just write this off of my time.

Like, no, you don't need to work with a calculator. It really is not a great tax credit, right? It's one that's there for borderline catastrophic cases as opposed to everyday stuff.

Steve McEwan: Yeah. So it's depending on the situation on ~like ~the advantage of it. There is an advantage in ~I'm pretty sure ~almost every case, but it can vary.

And it's [00:21:00] something to look at for sure. ~Like ~taxes are, they're there.

Jason Pereira: So let's talk next about how these things get set up. You typically work through advisors and advisors are ~typically ~the channel that all ~benefits get. So most benefits get sold through. ~So advisor goes to a client ~to, ~it goes to a business and wants to talk about their ~benefits program, or they want to talk about the benefits program.~

~Yeah. You know, ~what are they doing ~with the, ~with the client to design this program?

Steve McEwan: So basically what they do is, they'll talk to the client and see where our situation will make sense. And like I said, we're used in like a million different ways, which is The right way I believe because again, I believe in insurance ~insurance Is this i'm still licensed like I believe in insurance.~

~So ~so we'll see it used in different ways So typically a small business with not a big budget. We're a good starter plan if you're a one person corporation, for example, ~not a sole proprietor. They cannot have these Uh, but or a small corporation. That's where we'll be used a lot You but full disclosure there, ~you have to be very aware of the shareholders rules.

And then as you start to get into larger size employers, you'll see it used in different ways. So [00:22:00] a lot of the times we're using that top up scenario ~is what we would call it, ~where you've got a base plan, and then we're just a layer on top. As you start to get into a little bit bigger, say like 10 employees or more, then you might see us as a top up plan.

Or used as a flex plan. ~So that's one ~where they allocate between the HSA and wellness. And then the really large groups were being used for the wellness spending account. So insurance companies do HSAs. ~So ~at a certain size, there is some ease in just using the insurance companies, HSAs,

there's nothing to hide from it. We still win a lot of business, so it's fine. But then at the very large group, that's where will you be used as a WSA? Or even an HSA because they like the product and the platform so much that they can swap out insurance companies, but keep the HSA or WSA constant.

And then even at the larger group as well too, [00:23:00] that's where, we kind of have like a defined, ASO style where ~you can, ~you can start to create lump sums of money for employees for specific things. So, you know, like vision only, we call that my ASO where ~it's, you, ~you basically can just define exactly lump sum amounts.

And so there's a little bit more structure to it. ~So, and then ~what they do is ~they go in, ~figure out the need and ~then they create, so the advisors actually create the plans, ~create the plan administrator. There's no paper. We do enrollment where it's just an email and then the employees go in, log in on the app or online.

Yeah, let's talk about the employee setup.

Jason Pereira: Let's talk about the actual employer. So at the end of the day, the employer, ~I mean, ~what you're really describing here is an incredibly flexible plan that permits the employer to either just say, here's a pot of money, knock yourself out, or to work with an advisor to, put some best practices in around, ~you know, ~silos, right?

Like, Let's allocate X and Y and this amount to whatever and make it structured and make it look and [00:24:00] taste and feel a little bit more like a traditional plan. And that's actually an interesting protest I've had before. It's, you know, I remember one highly competitive field where they're like, we're looking at the options and they said, well, you know, God, you know, I can't look at this because I'm in such last thing I need to do is spend time explaining on, yes, we have a benefits program, but it's different than the one you're used to and whatever else.

You know, if you can make these things very, very similar, you don't have to have that conversation.

Steve McEwan: And that's where the flex, like, so that's where the lump sum amount is the easiest to do because employees will log in and it's a flat dollar amount. And then they can figure out ~what's, ~what's eligible.

And that's where a lot of. The industry insurance companies, I think have missed the mark. So what we have is really big adoption where our customer support on the app is interacting with the end employee, because the problem with benefits, it's always been there. It's still there ~is. ~They're extremely hard to explain to every [00:25:00] employee and every employee understand what's in their benefits package Like you get a booklet this big and then you're like, this is great Here you go, and no one wants to read what is an insurance contract.

So that's where we flipped it over Where we can directly deal with the plan administrator and the employee and that's been a huge advantage where we're like Employer and even to an extent the advisor just send them in To us, and we've got real people on chat and now we leverage AI big time and we can educate so a lot of the times our employees are coming in, but they're just like, hey, is this allowable?

Hey, tell me about like, what is this plan? What can I do with it? And that's where we can educate them in kind of like normal human speak, and it's been super valuable for us because that's where we get a lot of the loyal advisors, plant administrators, and employees is that [00:26:00] once they're in the environment, we can kind of like treat them, what I would say is almost like a normal Tech company approach where it's like, let's just simplify this stuff.

Like benefits is too complicated. We know it is. So that's where I think if, so it's different levels, right? You can go super easy where you're like, just give them a flat dollar amount and cover everything, but you're limited, like you are limited. Or you can go that siloed approach.

Jason Pereira: All right, so then let's go back to the end user experience, right?

So we're basically talking about they get an email to enroll, they go through a process, and the claims process is all done via apps, or how do you typically handle this?

Steve McEwan: Yeah, only apps. We don't do paper. So that's the one thing we've kind of, and again, that's like the business model where, you know, tech company, we, we, we knew we wanted to scale.

So we couldn't have own centers and we couldn't have paper claims coming in the mail. So ~they, ~they log in simple set up. It's very simple. There it is. And then you just go [00:27:00] into the same spot to claim, and then they go put in a claim, and then we've got a combination of, OCR bots and humans that are double checking and some redundancies there.

So if it's above a certain dollar main dollar amount, then humans will get eyes on it. The plan admin and all the reporting's just, it's online available, but we also just send it by email much like you would an Amazon. Receipt like it's nice that it comes to a plan administrator.

It comes in an email So you can just save it for accounting purposes And we do the pull from the company account claims plus admin fees plus taxes And on the same day directly deposit to the employee's personal account. So that happens twice a week now We can ramp that up if we needed to but that's kind of the cadence that seems to work

Jason Pereira: And, you know, it's not different than a lot of the traditional insurance programs now in terms of how they basically experience the [00:28:00] user, right?

They have apps. You basically take a picture and ask for ~your, you know, ~your claims adjudication process, it makes perfect sense. ~You know, ~you've got tech tools trying to take humans out of the loop because frankly, ~you know, ~most of this stuff tends to be routine for most people, right? Someone who's a diabetic and goes and buys every month from the same pharmacy, does it really need someone to look at that every time?

Or is there a better technological way to do that, to help keep your costs, where they are? So it makes perfect sense.

Steve McEwan: Yeah, and now the big thing that we're seeing and it's happening in the industry is fraud, right? Like so, people doctoring receipts and stuff like that. So that's again where we're leveraging outside AI platforms that can deal with fraud because ~it's, it's, yeah, it's, ~it's getting pretty wild everywhere.

Jason Pereira: There's been some very big, big, charges dropped against, actual, like, very large employers and many in the public realm as well that basically, experienced a traumatic amount of fraud. So yeah, not surprised. So all right, to wrap it up, basically when do you think people should ~consider you over or ~consider a defined contribution plan [00:29:00] over traditional benefits plan, as a kind of closing note?

Steve McEwan: I think you basically, if you. Own your own corporation. You should have the conversation with your advisor. Even if you are a small business owner ~for sure ~You should at least have a traditional plan, but the business owner Should have a plan set up as a top up so you can do different classes and things like that.

So it's worth a conversation with your advisor to see where it would fit, but in most cases it makes sense in some capacity, whether you're small or large. But don't discount insurance, like I said.

Jason Pereira: So, ~and last question is ~where can people find you if they want to look into it more?

Steve McEwan: So our website's www.

getmyhsa. com. I'm big on LinkedIn. If you want to get ahold of me, I'm super active there. So yeah, those are probably the two best spots.

Jason Pereira: ~Excellent. Stephen, thank you so much for your time. Very much appreciated. Take care. So that's this week's episode of Financial Planning for Canadian Business Owners.~

If you enjoyed this podcast, please review on all the usual podcast spots. That would [00:30:00] be Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, Spotify, enjoy and take care.

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