Financial Perception with Chad Willardson | E056

How money mindsets impact your outcome.

In this episode of Financial Planning for Canadian Business Owners, Jason Pereira, award–winning financial planner, university lecturer, and writer, interviews Chad Willardson, President and Founder of Pacific Capital and best–selling author of Stress–Free Money. Chad is here to talk about how childhood perception of money can affect your money mindset for the rest of your life and how to get around those perceptions!


Episode Highlights:

  • 0:59 – Chad Willardson introduces himself and his profession.

  • 2:25 – How does Chad start the conversation about early–life money perceptions?

  • 3:40 – Jason and Chad break down the psychological barriers of spending money.

  • 6:17 – What prohibitory mindsets around money does Chad usually run into?

  • 10:09 – Jason and Chad discuss the negative effects of having a scarcity mindset.

  • 11:11 – What successful discussions has Chad had to help his clients move away from a scarcity mindset?

  • 12:15 – Jason and Chad break down the failures of education systems around the world.

  • 13:18 – Are there commonalities amongst the people that Chad can’t get through to?

  • 15:49 – How often does Chad see prohibitory money mindsets passed down to kids?

  • 19:33 – Chad shares the key lessons from his upcoming book, Smart Not Spoiled.

  • 21:54 – What would Chad tell those who are looking to move past a scarcity mindset?

3 Key Points

  1. Money perceptions that are passed on from parent to child determine the mindset that people have for their entire lives.

  2. Chad often sees a misconception of risk where people are either extremely aggressive and risky or are so scared of taking any risk that they can’t move their money out of the bank.

  3. By demonstrating what people can do based on their current financial situation, Chad helps his clients move away from a scarcity mindset.

Tweetable Quotes:

  • “If a muscle gets flexed long enough, it’s going to cramp and actually it’s harder to loosen up because of that.” – Jason Pereira

  • “There’s a real lack of understanding of the randomness of the world in general.” – Jason Pereira

  • “It’s a tragedy to me that kids graduate high school knowing how to dissect a frog or knowing all the inner parts of a cell but having no clue about personal finance.” – Chad Willardson

  • “You need to actually trust the process and trust the plan and the strategy that you’ve got. That should weigh more than the fear or the scarcity emotions that you’re feeling because that’s going to hold you back from success.” – Chad Willardson

Resources Mentioned:

Transcript:

Producer: Welcome to the Financial Planning for Canadian Business Owners podcast. You will hear about industry  insights with award-winning financial planner and entrepreneur, Jason Pereira. Through the interviews  with different experts, with their stories and advice, you will learn how you can navigate the challenges  of being an entrepreneur, plan for success and make the most of your business and life. And now your  host, Jason Pereira. 

Jason Pereira: Hello and welcome. Today's show, I have Chad Williardson, president founder of Pacific Capital and a  bestselling author for his book, Stress-Free Money. I brought him on the show today to specifically talk  about how childhood perceptions of money can permeate with you through your entire life and how to  think and work around those. And with that, here's my interview with Chad. Chad, thanks for making  time today. 

Chad Williardson: Yeah, thanks for having me on, Jason. Appreciate it. 

Jason Pereira: My pleasure. So, Chad Williardson, tell us about what it is you do. 

Chad Williardson: So, I am a financial fiduciary for entrepreneurs and families, based in Southern California. We help  clients all over the world to really enjoy life by reducing their stress about money hence the book title,  Stress-Free Money. 

Jason Pereira: Yeah, this is not about some stress free, quick get rich quick scheme, right? This is all about mentality,  more of something like that. 

Chad Williardson: Not at all. No, this is more about preparation and really just taking a look at your future and your  present and figuring out what you're really aiming for and getting your financial life in order, and taking  a more holistic approach. And like you said, talking about some of the money blueprints or the mindsets  that we grow up with and how that impacts the way you make financial decisions, which I think is very  important, and people often neglect that. So, 

Jason Pereira: One of the more interesting questions I've found in my career often, when I have a hard time kind of just  relating to someone's view on something financial is the question, can you tell me about what money  was like growing up and your parents and their access to it and their openness about it? And man, does  that take people down a cathartic path to some degree, right? 

Chad Williardson: That's a good question.

Jason Pereira: It really is because it just helps you understand where they're coming from. We all start with a default.  People think similar to us just by default in nature, but you learn there's differences, but sometimes you  find an extreme difference. Unless you go back to the root of it, it's really hard to understand. So, talk to  me about how you start conversations about perceptions of money early in life. 

Chad Williardson: Similar to what you asked, I really do want to dig down and ask, growing up as a family, how did your  family talk about money? Was it something they never talked about? And in a lot of people, that's the  case. It was a taboo subject. It was something that was almost improper to discuss. And it really will tell  us a lot if they had a scarcity mindset in the family where it was like, hurry up and turn the lights off or  hurry up and turn the water off. And it was this constant pounding into these kids head every day that  money's going to run out, and then you meet people and these people have potentially millions of  dollars and they have that same mindset where they're extremely concerned about running out. And  yet, it's probably almost out of the realm of financial possibilities, but that mindset has been carried  with them since they were little. 

Jason Pereira: And it's interesting because oftentimes you'll hear people say, "Well, that person's very frugal, that's  why they have money." Right? And there is a corollary to that, but then they also, at the same time,  don't get that there's also a psychological barrier to spending that money. So, despite the fact they may  have that level of comfort and the average person, if in that position, wouldn't worry about this, that,  and the other thing and it would spend more money on vacations, whatever it is. There's an actual  psychological barrier for these people to part with it, because of that experience. 

Chad Williardson: Yeah, we had a client who's... They were in their late seventies, they lived in the same house for over 50  years and same small house, they had about $4.5 million in their retirement accounts. And the wife just  kept... She brought it up three times in an appointment, where she said, "I just want to replace the  carpet in our home. The carpet's gross, it's disgusting, it's been there for decades. We've got to replace  it." Total cost would have been about maybe $2,000 to $5,000. And her husband just basically was  refusing. And he said, "Well, we don't need to replace the carpet. There's nothing wrong with it." 

Chad Williardson: This is a couple who's almost 80 years old and they have $4.5 million. There's no way they're going to  spend the money they have and yet that, like you said, that mental block was just... We don't need to  replace it. There's nothing wrong with it. I'm not spending that kind of money on carpet. And eventually,  we did persuade him to do it and it made her a very happy client, but it's like you said, there's that  mental barrier that won't let people get past it. 

Jason Pereira: Yep. It's funny because what he was talking about there, it wasn't about the carpet and it wasn't about  the money. 

Chad Williardson:Right. 

Jason Pereira: It was about something else, entirely. It was about a sense of security or... It's funny. I always find  people who think they can clamp down for a short period of time and then go back to living the way  they were. It's one of those things, a muscle gets flexed long enough, it's going to start to cramp. Right?  And it actually gets harder to loosen up because of that. 

Jason Pereira: Yeah. So, the carpet story, it's amusing. But I mean, this permeates in just about every aspect of finance  and in what we do. I mean, I had a case recently where I was looking to have a family meeting with the  heirs of the family to explain how estate planning worked and what was going to happen when mom  and dad passed away and said, look, we don't have to do this with numbers. 

Jason Pereira: You just tell them how the estate's going to flow, no numbers, who's in charge of what and why, they  can respect that and one person was like, "Yeah, let's do it." The other one's like, "Nope, my father's got  his will in an envelope, in the study. No one's looked at it. On the day he dies, that's when we look at it  and that's the way I want to do it, too." And it's like, there was no... And again, you start talking about  why, and their openness about money was a non-starter in that family, no one talked about it. And  because of that, she carried that into her. 

Jason Pereira: Now, luckily they're in a position where hopefully that shouldn't cause any conflict. But as we know, one  of the number one reasons for divorce and family breakup in estates is money. So, this is an important  topic to have. So, talk to me about some of the more common kind of negative money mindsets or  behaviors. I won't say negative because maybe I'm not being too wrong about that, but let's just say,  prohibitory, things that prevent them from living the fullest happiest version of their lives. What do you  most often come across? 

Chad Williardson: I think a couple of them. Number one would be that scarcity mindset, that they're always going to run  out. We had a client who came to us, very successful, high income client in Southern California, had a  couple million dollars and just said, "Once I can get to $4 million, then I'll feel secure and I can retire  comfortably." And I think I tell this story in the book. He's at $15 million or $16 million now in his  financial accounts and he's just as worried. He's always thinking something bad's about to happen and it  was always because that's what his parents drilled into him. So, I'd say that scarcity mindset is one. 

Chad Williardson: Another one I would say is, a misperception of risk where people think that, either they're extremely  aggressive and risky and they're willing to bet their entire life on one tip they heard from a neighbor or a  friend, or they're so scared of taking any risks that their money sits at the bank and today earns basically  0% per year because any kind of fluctuation of value, to them is just something that they can't stomach.  So, they bring with them a risk appetite, I would say. So, there are some that are flying by the seat of  their pants and say, "I'm going to put everything I have into this particular investment idea because it sounds so great and I could double my money," or, "I'm just going to keep everything under the  mattress and in a bank account and I'm never going to invest anything." I think those extremes are way  more common than I would have expected. 

Jason Pereira: They're both troubling. The one about the risk seeking. I often find again, that behavior is a learned  behavior to some degree as well. And I'll hear the excuse of, hey, my folks did this and it worked out for  them. And I think there's a real lack of understanding of the randomness of the world, in general. Right?  And for lack of a better term, those who are statistical quants like myself will basically say something to  the effect of, 'Run that simulation a thousand times and it fails. It fails 80% of the time.' Right? I think  that's also a big misconception in terms of how we even view the people who are wealthy in this world.  There is a tremendous amount of luck at play with success, but we don't really attribute it to that. 

Jason Pereira: Yet meanwhile, if you stop and look at all the people who did similar things to the person who's ultra  wealthy and see how little a difference there was between what happened, yet, the outcome was  enormous, you'd have a little bit more respect for it. And just because it worked for your folks, doesn't  mean it's going to work for you. It's a different world at this point. 

Chad Williardson: Absolutely. I agree. 

Jason Pereira: I'm also going to go back to the gentleman with the scarcity mindset who said, if he had enough money,  then he'd basically have enough to retire. I find people will often anchor to a number. I don't know  where this number comes from, hypothetically. For lack of better financial planning, they anchor to a  number, but I'm going to take the guests that, that kept on moving up the closer and closer he got to it. 

Chad Williardson: Absolutely. Yeah. And I reminded him of that a couple years ago, I said, "Do you remember?" I said, "I  have it in my notes here that you said, 'If I could just get to $4 million, I'll never be worrying again. I  won't be like this anymore, I'll I'll finally just be able to relax and not think about money or the  markets.'" And yet he doubled it, and he tripled it. And he still would have these anxiety moments  where he's thinking, what if I run out? What if I lose my job? And I said, "You haven't had to work. You  could have quit 10 years ago. You're working because you love it, obviously, because you don't  financially need to." 

Jason Pereira: Yep. Did he have any hobbies? Because if he didn't, I can see. 

Chad Williardson: Yeah, no. I mean, he's a golfer. He loves to golf. He doesn't travel as much as he should. He feels like he's  always got to be back at work, he doesn't want to get laid off. And I'm like, "You're one of the top  people in your company. I've seen your work, you're not going anywhere." But he has that anxiety in the  back of his mind.

Jason Pereira: Yeah. That's the old... Like I tell people about retirement, if you think... Some people seem to think that  retirement is a switch, that you get there and you turn it off. And I always use the analogy, you can't  drive a car at 100 miles an hour and just come to a sudden halt, because you're going to die. And it's one  of those things you have to slowly, basically move into. But those were scarcely mindsets. I mean, very  much more difficult. One story to share. I had one client who was so paranoid about losing... About not  having enough, literally had me run a simulation at 0% return and 8% inflation, wanted to see a negative  8% per year yield on his investments. Still succeeded and was still not 100% convinced. And I'm just, 

Chad Williardson: I don't know. I don't trust that. I don't trust your planning tools. Let's run them [inaudible 00:10:33]. 

Jason Pereira: Yeah. Those are the rare ones. I mean, I do find that for again, I think a lot of what we're talking about is,  there's a big segment of the population in the middle, which is not seeing these types of behaviors. You  have the ends of the curve, which absolutely do. And then you have people on those end of the curve  that can move back towards the middle, and some of them are can't. Right? And I find that with  effective planning, being able to say, hey, you're there, or the number wasn't $5 million, it was $3.5  million or whatever else it is. And being able to tell them they can quit their job the next day, gets a lot  of people passed it, but sometimes for some people, they just won't. So, let me ask you to your history,  what successful tactics or discussions have you had to kind of help people move away from that  mindset? 

Chad Williardson: Good question. I'd say the biggest, is really challenging on where their assumptions have come from.  And that's typically when most reasonable people will discover that it really is just the blueprint their  parents passed on. And it's, how did you pick that number that you need X as a lump sum to retire? I  don't know. That's just what my parents always talked about that once they got to that level, they would retire. Or I think it's really just showing people, demonstrating what they can do based on their current  financial life. And to add to that, we're talking about some of the mindsets that people carry with them  from childhood. 

Chad Williardson: I think you can have a great impact by just proactively discussing money in your family and helping your  children before they leave the nest, to really understand that you can have a lot of influence and control  over your financial success, but it's going to take some efforts, it takes some learning and preparation.  It's a tragedy to me that kids graduate high school knowing how to dissect a frog or knowing all the inner  parts of a cell and having no clue about personal finance or taxes or budgeting or investing or getting a  loan. These kids, the second they're 18, they're getting solicited for credit cards and they have no  experience in personal finance. To me, that's a big failure of our education system. 

Jason Pereira: Yeah. I don't think any country around the world, as far as I've seen has cracked financial literacy as a  construct. And I will say too, that I find that a lot of these financial literacy programs end up getting  bogged down and almost sound like... Some people describe them as almost, their goals as almost, let's teach everyone to be a DIY investor. And I'm just like, no, let's teach them how to live within their means  and what that means, not to do that and how not to fall into these pits of getting dinged for overdraft  fees or 18% credit card rates or whatever else it is. 

Chad Williardson: Or get rich quick schemes that they're going to get inevitably shown over their lifetime. 

Jason Pereira: Right. God, yeah. There's one on those around every corner, oftentimes sold by someone who wants  you to come to work at the same thing and somehow the shape is a triangle. Anyway, it is what it is. So,  in your practice, you have these conversations. Tell me about where you find the biggest roadblocks. Are  there commonalities that people who you just can't get through to? 

Chad Williardson: I think the people who are... I mean, we have a sheet that basically says, here are the people that are a  great fit to work with us and here are the people who are not a fit. And we ask people that basically pre qualify themselves. And some people will opt out. On the left side, people who are not a fit, we have  things like, you really just want some hot stock tips or hot investment tips, or you believe you're smarter  than the experts, or you're looking for the cheapest advice possible. 

Chad Williardson: These are things that, they might be a roadblock because someone says, "I just need someone to do  what I want them." Like going to a doctor and saying, "I already know the medicines. I looked up on  Google and WebMD and I've diagnosed myself. I just need someone in a white coat to give me the  medicines I've already prescribed myself." And those are roadblocks. Those are the people that I'm not  going to work with obviously, but there are a lot of people out there and there's nothing wrong with  being a, do it yourselfer, but don't come to hire an advisor if you're a complete, do it yourselfer, or you  already know everything you need to know. 

Jason Pereira: Yeah. I often find that those... Or at least you think you do. I often find that a lot of times, those are  driven by one of two things, either they're actually validators and wants someone else to tell them  they're doing it right. Which they're not really looking for an honest opinion after all, or one spouse wants advice because she doesn't believe... I'm going to say she, because it's almost always the husband  who believes they can do it 100% right. So, you want to bash me on general stereotyping, that's one  that's proven universal in my history. The overconfidence is usually the males and the recognition of the  need for professionalism is almost always the females. 

Chad Williardson: We had a case like that. We literally just had a case like that, where they were on the couch and he was  basically touting his Warren Buffet experience of how smart he's become by trading stocks. Last year,  when the market went up, bounced up 40%, 50% after the downturn, he's bragging about it. And his  wife was sitting on the couch and looking where the couch is and she's shaking her head like this. She's  like, "You can't do this. You've lost so much money over the years. This is why we're here talking to somebody else." And he's like, "Well, actually, remember that one time?" And he's just trying to validate  [crosstalk 00:15:18]. 

Jason Pereira: Ah, just like golf, he's talking about all his birdies and eagles, yet he completely has erased from his  memories, all his quadruple bogeys. 

Chad Williardson: And it happens. Yeah. So, that's common, like you said. 

Jason Pereira: Yeah. So with that, let's just say that you do basically meet someone whose got this mindset, mindset of  scarcity, a mindset that's kind of not healthy for them, and you've worked with them. How often do you  see this carry down to the kids or do you try to put yourself in the middle there and kind of coach them  around how to talk to their kids about money and try to prevent this mistake from repeating itself? 

Chad Williardson: We absolutely do talk about it. I have five kids myself. So, it's a common conversation topic in our  family. My oldest is 16, my youngest is five and we're talking about financial stuff all the time. And I'll  bring home stories and say, "Let's learn from this lesson that I just talked about with someone at work."  And so we do, we bring it up to them and say, "What are your conversations around money with your  family?" And we will talk about some of the ways that we believe they can help their kids be smart  about money and not spoil. And that's actually the title of my book that's coming out this year 2021 is  called, Smart, Not Spoiled. 

Chad Williardson: And so, we talk about some things that you can teach your children related to budgeting or how to earn  money or investing or taxes, things that we basically are going to cover in that book, the seven money  skills your kids need to master before they leave the nest. So, this is a topic of conversation with all of  our clients who have children or grandchildren. Often it comes up when they're talking about college.  They'll say, well, one spouse recently said, "My parents paid for college so I could focus on my studies  and my business career." And his wife said, "I had to work for it. I had to pay every penny of college and  I learned so much, I would never want to spoil my kids and take that away from them." And so, they  compromise. 

Jason Pereira: Has she worked out inflation on education in the last 20 years, right? I had a same exact conversation  with family members were like, "Well, I paid for it." And only when we sat down and went over what the  actual annual recommended cost was at some of these universities where, they realize, oh my God, no.  No summer job is going to pay for this. 

Chad Williardson: No. Yeah. I mean, it's 6% minimum, at least here in the U.S. 6% inflation minimum. And so, what they  compromised on though, was they decided they were going to help finance the first or second year in  full and have the children work and earn and save and contribute to the third and the fourth year of college. So, they were trying to work through that. But it's a conversation that you've got to have. How  are you going to teach the next generation to be responsible and successful with money? That's  important. 

Jason Pereira: Yep, absolutely. So, first off, let me commend you on getting your five-year-old talking about this topic,  because when my six... Now six year old, he was five at the time, asked me what I did for a living and I  said, I help people with their money. He looked at me very confused and said, "How is that even a job?" 

Chad Williardson: That's funny. 

Jason Pereira: Well, okay, how do I win this conversation? I can't, because you're six years old, or five at the time. So,  I'll go back to your book, Smart, Not Spoiled. It's interesting because I find that these mindsets early on  in life, based on how your parents looked at things, can go one of two ways. They can either literally be,  you can end up exactly like your parents with that scarcity mindset, or you could resent it to the degree  that once you get your money on it, you are the complete and total opposite. And one of the most  famous cases of this, are you familiar with the story of the Witch of Wall Street? 

Chad Williardson: I'm not. Let's hear it. 

Jason Pereira: Yeah. So, this was the one back during the heyday of railroads, who became one of the richest investors  in the world. She was in her eighties, dressed all in black and counted every last penny out her change  first, but was worth an absolute, abject fortune. And was so notoriously poor that she refused to pay for  surgery for her son's leg. He ended up having to amputate it. Because she was going around, negotiating  with different doctors to see who would do it for the lowest price. 

Jason Pereira: So, she dies, he inherits everything, blows it all on parties. Literally just... He died without a penny. And  that was kind of his ultimate revenge on mom's frugality. So again, that's an extreme example, but I  often think people think that their kids are like, "I'm teaching my kids responsibility by acting this way."  Well, maybe. There's also a point at which they might resent it and might become the complete  opposite to prove they're not mom or dad. But tell me about the key lessons from Smart, Not Spoiled. I  mean, you talked about a couple of areas you're addressing, but talk about the key learnings that you  hope people get from that book. 

Chad Williardson: Yep. I hope people get that... I mean, I want them to understand that you really can teach your kids  about money at a young age and it can have a great lasting impact on them. Probably more than a lot of  the other topics that they're learning in school, to be honest. Everyone's going to deal with money. So,  they're going to have to face it at some point. So, we talk about a few of the just basic financial planning  topics and some of the ways that you can teach kids about it. So, we have budgeting and financial planning, we have insurance, taxes. One chapter is about giving. Most of our clients who are very  successful are also very charitable. They have causes they care about and the next generation, they're  very driven. And so we talk about, how can you get your kids involved in finding causes they care about? 

Chad Williardson: Giving time or money to those causes. We talk about investing. We give basic investing one-on-one and  some ideas of how to teach your kids, maybe some resources and some games that they can play. Board  games. My kids have the CASHFLOW for Kids board game and a few others. That one I think is by Robert Kiyosaki, but they play board games or they play games on their phone or on the computer and they  learn about successful financial principles. And I think we typically just hope they're going to figure it out  when they grow up but I really believe we need to be proactive and need to get our kids more  interested in and more well-versed about how to be successful with your personal financial decisions.  Because like it or not, age 18, it's time to be an adult and they're going to get solicited and they're going  to get all kinds of offers in the mail for their first credit cards and student loans and all these things. And  if we don't prepare them, then we're setting them up for failure. 

Jason Pereira: Yeah. And Robinhood will push them into margin accounts and options trading. 

Chad Williardson: Exactly. 

Jason Pereira: So, yeah, I'll also add, if you want to do a good thing, if you can block out WallStreetBets and that one  subreddit from your router, it's probably a good idea. Let's keep your kids off of that, please. So, before  we wrap up, any kind of last... Let's talk about this from the standpoint of the individuals who are  financial professionals listening to this. If someone recognizes themselves in this conversation, they  recognize a scarcity mindset, they recognize the ever moving bar, the uncomfortableness, the fear of  loss. The risk side is a different story but let's talk about those who get to a point where they have  achieved success, but maybe they listened to their planner. Maybe their planner set a plan, told them  it's enough, but they just can't get past that yet. What would you tell them is the best way for them to  start to move behind this mentality? 

Chad Williardson: I'd say, you've got to release the burden of proof and evidence. If you're not a financial professional and  you've got a great fiduciary professional that you're working with already and they're going through  actual numbers and data and you're prepared, and you've really looked at all the different areas of your  financial life, you need to actually just trust the process and trust the plan and the strategy that you've  got. And that should weigh more than the fear or the scarcity emotions that you're feeling, because  that's going to hold you back from success, regardless of how much money you have. And what's the  point of having lots of money if you're not enjoying your life? If you're constantly stressed and anxious,  it doesn't matter how many zeros are in your bank account, it's not an enjoyable lifestyle. So, we talk a  lot about the health, having health and wealth together because one or the other is not as fulfilling. 

Chad Williardson: So, I think taking a look at... I would just advise people to take a look at... Take that burden of stress off  of your own shoulders and rely on the plan and the strategy that you've got. Trust it, review it regularly,  but trust it, don't put that burden of scarcity on yourself and on the next generation, it's not going to  help. You've got to look at life with an abundance mindset and really understand that you do what you  do best and let your financial team do what they do best and together, you can succeed. 

Jason Pereira: Absolutely. You mentioned fiduciary and not every countries got fiduciaries everywhere, unfortunately,  but yes, wherever possible, seek that out. And agreed, I think. I'll go back to the health issue. And as I  always tell people, sometimes I'll have a client, they'll say, "Well, I'm never retiring." It's like, okay, well, I  got news for you. You have a choice. Vertically or horizontally, your choice. 

Chad Williardson: Right. 

Jason Pereira: And I don't know about you, but I kind of have a bunch of stuff I want to do vertically instead of  horizontally. So, your choice. 

Chad Williardson: Yeah, exactly. 

Jason Pereira: So Chad, thank you very much for your time. Very much appreciate it. And where can people find you if  they want to learn more? 

Chad Williardson: Yeah, pacificcapital.com or I'm on LinkedIn. I'm very active on LinkedIn. And then thirdly, if you look at  the book, Stress-Free Money on Amazon. 

Jason Pereira: Excellent. Chad, thank you very much. 

Chad Williardson: Thank you, Jason. 

Jason Pereira: So, that was my conversation with Chad Williardson of Pacific Capital about just general money  mindsets and how scarcity and other forms of mindsets can actually be detrimental to your happiness  and hopefully, you can work beyond them. As always. If you enjoyed this podcast, please leave a review  on iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. And until next time, take care. 

Producer: This podcast was brought to you by Woodgate Financial, an award-winning financial planning firm,  catering to high net worth individuals, business owners, and their families. To learn more, go to  woodgate.com. You can subscribe to this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Google Play and Spotify,  or find more episodes at jasonpereira.ca. You can even ask Siri, Alexa or Google Home to subscribe for  you.

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