Estate Administration with David Edey | E097
How to ensure a successful estate.
In today's episode we have David Edey, CEA and financial advisor in Montreal. He is an author of a book called Executor Help. He is on the show to talk about what it is to be an executor and how an executor can have a successful execution of someone's will in both cases of if you are a business owner and if you are not.
Episode Highlights:
1.01: David is a certified Executive Advisor. He has been in the financial planning industry for over 35 years in Montreal. He is an author of a book, Executor Help - How to settle on a state - pick an executor and avoid family fights.
2.30: The executor is going to be the individual who's going to make sure that the person who has written will, their wishes that's written in the will is going to be carried out.
4.16: As per David you want to prepare your executors as much as possible, but you also have to have the conversations with them. You have to let them know what your wishes are, and you are going to make sure that you help them with a bunch of professionals around them.
6.10: When there is a death in the family or there is a death, people are traumatized, and you can be fumbling around looking for things when you are traumatized.
08.20: As per Jason, people's perception of what's fair can change over time and he finds that in the end of the life of a parent you never have an equitable split in terms of time supporting that parent amongst the kids.
10.24: People lose their minds and there's a sense of entitlement all of a sudden when it comes to an estate.
12.06: As an executor, you also have to understand that there is legal liability for you to make sure that the estate gets settled, make sure that the taxes are being taken care of, and also to keep yourself from being litigated by the beneficiaries.
13.35: Don't pay any beneficiaries until you've taken care of all of the debts and the taxes, because if it comes back that the estate owes money, try to get that money from the beneficiaries.
18.15: As a business owner, if you don't think about what is going to happen to the business in case something happens to you suddenly, you are leaving your family in chaos. You are leaving them disorganized.
20.32: As a business owner you need to have some sort of plan in terms of what would happen if something happened to you. You need to create an estate plan. You need to create a succession plan and update it regularly with lawyer and accountant.
3 Key Points:
David talks about the role and responsibilities of the executor and what needs to be done to make sure that this is a success.
David talks about preparation of the estate and how we basically set the stage for success.
It's very important to make sure you are working with an accountant that is professional because they can make sure that the taxes and debts are paid first before you start going out any of the cash.
Tweetable Quotes:
"99% of the individuals who are left to be an executor have absolutely no idea what to do or where to start." – David
"The reason for the book is to get people to make the moves, to have the will and also have the conversations with the executive." - David
"You really don't know about somebody until you have to share an inheritance with them." - David
"While the individual is still alive, I would suggest having a conversation with their executor, but also have the conversation with the beneficiaries or family members. And this is probably a touchy point for a lot of people because people don't want to have those uncomfortable conversations." - David
Resources Mentioned:
Facebook – Jason Pereira's Facebook
LinkedIn – Jason Pereira's LinkedIn
https://www.davidedey.com/
https://mobile.twitter.com/davideedey
Full Transcript;
Producer: Welcome to the financial planning for Canadian business owners podcast. You will hear about industry insights with award-winning financial planner and entrepreneur, Jason Pereira. Through the interviews with different experts with their stories and advice, you will learn how you can navigate the challenges of being an entrepreneur, plan for success and make the most of your business and life, and now your host, Jason Pereira.
Jason Pereira: Hello, and welcome. Today on the show, David Edie, CEA and financial advisor in Montreal, and he is a author of a book called Executor Help. I brought him on the show specifically to talk about what it is to be an executor and how to plan to make sure your executor can have a successful execution of someone's will, both if you are a business owner and if you're not, and with that, here's my interview with David. David, thanks for taking the time.
David Edey: Jason, thanks for having me on.
Jason Pereira: David, tell us a little bit about what it is you do and who you are.
David Edey: Well I'm a certified executor advisor. I've been in the financial planning industry for over 35 years in Montreal, and, uh, as you said in the opening, I'm an author of the book Executor Help, How to Sell an Estate, Pick an Executor, and Avoid Family Fights, and, um, basically I came, I ended up writing this book during the pandemic because it's partially based on my family story of 7 years, ten court appearances and $50,000.00 to settle my parents' estate, and they had a will, so every time I would talk to, with clients or executors of what I was going through about 10 years ago, they would tell me about the problems they were having. I'd hear about families that were breaking up so I didn't want anybody else to go through what I went through, so I wrote the book.
Jason Pereira: That sounds incredibly painful, off the bat.
David Edey: And expensive.
Jason Pereira: And expensive, but also just like, again, someone got organized or at least thought they get organized, and you have this kind of pain, and I always tell people, look if you, if you really want the people you leave behind to curse your name when they think of you, leave a disorganized estate. Like you are just leaving them with a giant mess if you do that, so I wanna start off, before we talk about your story, um, if you're willing to share that much, let's just talk, uh, talk about what are the responsibilities of, of an executor and let's just go back. I'm just gonna set the stage here. You've had other cases or other episodes that talked about estate planning, specifically the need for a will. Okay. We talked about that, but we really haven't talked too much about how these things can go sideways, so let's talk about the role of the executor and what needs to be done to make sure that that's a success.
David Edey: Well the executor is going to be the individual who's going to make sure that the, the wishes of the testator, the person who's written the will, that their wishes that's written in the will is gonna be carried out. So they are, most individuals who are taking on this big giant favor, they have to understand what's involved in terms of their responsibility. You're, you're looking to spend anywhere between 100 hours and 18 to 24 months to settle an estate on average, and that was before pre-COVID and in my case it took over 7 years. So when you wanna leave that job to somebody or ask that someone to take on that, that one big favor, you wanna prepare them as much as possible because 99 percent of the individuals who are left to be an executor have absolutely no idea what to do or where to start.
Jason Pereira: Yeah, it's interesting. I mean the, uh, degree to which I've seen people fight over who gets to be the executor as if it's an honor as opposed to a massive pain in the butt is beyond belief, but it happens, and unfortunately in some cases you definitely wanna make sure some people are not executors for various reasons. So that's their job. Talk to me about preparation of the estate and how we basically set the stage for success.
David Edey: Well, well I should back up a little bit –
Jason Pereira: Okay.
David Edey: – because we're, we're talking about estates and wills and executor. We're, we're going under the assumption that most Canadians have a will and an estate, and, and statistically it shows probably about 60 percent of Canadians don't have an estate or will plan. So that's part of the reason for the book, it's to get people to make those, to make the moves to have the will and then also have the conversations with the executor. This is probably the least sexiest topic that you're gonna have on your show talking about death, but spoiler alert, we're all going to die, and you have to make the decision that do I wanna leave my, and you said before a mess, and I like to say do you wanna leave a legacy or do you wanna leave a legacy and a mess, so you wanna have, you wanna prepare your executor as much as possible, but you also have to have the conversations with them. You have to let them know what your wishes are. You're gonna also have to make sure that you help them, set them up with a bunch of professionals around them. An accountant that's gonna help the, have to do the, the, uh, the tax returns, especially the final tax return. You wanna have your lawyer help them guide through if there's gonna be any legal matters especially when they have to deal with unscrupulous and, um, miserable, you know, and I'll use the words in quotes, miserable beneficiaries, because you really don't know about somebody until you have to share an inheritance with them. So you wanna make sure that you prepare them as much as possible and make it easier on them to get the job done. Like I said, it's gonna take over 100 hours, and those 100 hours a lotta times people are gonna have to take time off from work to get, uh, to get the job done, and they've gotta deal with those beneficiaries.
Jason Pereira: Beneficiaries who oftentimes are not gonna –
David Edey: Miserable.
Jason Pereira: – understand why it's taking so long or start getting suspicious and –
David Edey: Exactly.
Jason Pereira: – yeah.
David Edey: Exactly.
Jason Pereira: Money changes people unfortunately. Okay. So that's the expectation as I said. So let's talk about prepping in advance. How do we prevent things from going sideways before death, before the will? W, a, assuming the will is done. A will is in place, how do we prevent that?
David Edey: Well you would sit down with the, uh, executor. Let them know where the will is kept, who are the professionals that are involved. I like to advocate that you have a brightly colored envelope, maybe red or yellow and let the executor know that in my home or wherever, not a lock, not in a safety deposit box or a vault or anything like that which it can be accessed, but somewhere in a filing cabinet. It's a bright yellow en, envelope or a red envelope, and in there it'll have the will. It'll have, um, you know, the names of the, you know, the accountant, the lawyer, things that make it easier on 'em. You know, the pre-planning funeral you might've done. All of those things are in that brightly colored envelope because when there's a death in the family or there's a death, people are traumatized and you can't be fumbling around looking for things when you're traumatized, so make it as easy as possible on the executor to find the will. Also inside the will, something we don't, uh, a lotta people don't think about it is your logins and passwords which are for digital assets. You know, for every email address, there's probably about 130 digital addresses which would be, you know, YouTube, your bank, uh, your online banking. It could be, um, your gym membership. All of the things that go through monthly that you need to get, have access to for the passwords. Same thing for your cell phone, your iPad, computer. You need to have those, all the logins and passwords inside that brightly colored envelope along with your will to make it easier on the executor to get the job done.
Jason Pereira: Yeah. So it's, uh, yeah, and just letting them know where it is. I'd also add that unfortunately people will think or believe in many cases they are entitled to or the parent wanted them to have certain objects or things when someone died, and that that's person's passing is the invitation to go ahead and take that now. That has to be made clear at the onset –
David Edey: Cor, correct because –
Jason Pereira: – that has to stay where it is.
David Edey: – when, 'cause if party in question was a wh, if someone was to die, what would happen. So, or how to prepare them. While the individual is still alive, I would suggest not only have that conversation with their executor, but also have the conversation with the beneficiaries or the family members, and this is probably a touchy point for a lotta people because people don't wanna have those uncomfortable conversations. People, there's three types of families. There's the family who will not do anything at all and there's no will, and, you know, there's, there's gonna be mess. There's the family who has conversations but they've only say, yeah, there's a will and they don't say what it's in it, and they let the paperwork do the talking, and that's where the hurt feelings come in, and then there's the family who has the ongoing conversations with their beneficiaries in the family saying these are my wishes, and this is what I would like going forward. I don't want any problems with the executor. This is who I've chosen as the executor and this is what it's stated in my will. Yes, they're gonna be upset. They might be pissed off. They may not talk to you because there is –
Jason Pereira: Right.
David Edey: – that sense of entitlement and, as you said earlier, that money changes people. Absolutely. In my case, we were three kids and the only mistake my parents didn't have, even though they had their will done in my office, is that they never had the conversation with the three kids. Uh, two of us knew about it. The third one, once my parents did pass away, they started to contest the will even though the will was s, supposed to be split three ways. Split three ways was unfair enough for this individual, so we had to go to court and they wanted to contest. So it's important that you have those conversations with your family. I think it's the most important thing right after making sure that your estate and your will is taken care of is that you have the conversation with the family. Don't take for granted that everybody gets along at Christmas and just, uh, let's, let's have fun and we're a great family on family vacations. You have absolutely no idea how they're gonna behave when you're no longer here, so you might as well prepare them now.
Jason Pereira: Agreed. As, um, unfortunately very, very few clients have ever taken me up on a family meeting which is unfortunate, but, uh, hopefully we'll be able to, hopefully this, the planning, the planning **** have been controversial to date luckily, but, again, as you said, a perfect example is, you know, a three-way split was not perceived as equitable by one candidate, and that can, again 7 years of your life that that went down the drain for that one. The other thing too is that people's perception of what's fair can change over time, and I find that in particular in the en, towards the end of a life of a parent, you have, there's almost never an equitable split in terms of time supporting that parent amongst the kids, and many times people will start to tell themselves a story that well I helped mom and dad through the last couple a years and therefore I'm entitled to more or I'm entitled to this, and you weren't there –
David Edey: Absolutely.
Jason Pereira: – in the last couple a years or whatever it is or, you know, my sibling lived across the country and they couldn't support them so why should they get their fair share. So people will tell themselves all kinds of stories as to why they should be entitled to what they are entitled to either right or wrong, but it is a very, very easy thing to get, to, to end up in conflict.
David Edey: But, but at the end of the day, it's the parents, the testator who's written the will, they can do absolutely anything they want with it. There is no, you, there's no right, but again people lose their minds and there's a sense of entitlement all of a sudden when it comes to an estate.
Jason Pereira: Well the one, uh, the one thing I will contradict you there on the **** province is there can be dependency claims, right, so if –
David Edey: Mm hmm.
Jason Pereira: – that adult child was a dependent of the parent, then the parent cannot simply cut them off and say you got your fair share. Everybody else is getting the other, the rest of it, right, and then unfortunately there's a precedence case in Vancou, out of BC with, uh, for lack of a better term, a deadbeat son who basically just never worked, lived off his parents, mooched off them. Didn't have anything wrong with him. Just didn't, just mooched off them and, uh, the parents are like, you know what, I think I've given them enough. I'm just gonna leave everything to my other two kids. Well they actually had a posthumous dependency claim against the estate which is –
David Edey: Right.
Jason Pereira: – yeah, so that, that can happen. That can happen, but otherwise barring a dependent that you are, someone who's actually dependent on you, yeah, they can do whatever they want.
David Edey: And, and that's why there's no, a lotta times there's no family conversations 'cause they wanna stay away from the confrontation. Well why are you giving more to, or even when it comes down to situation of choosing an executor, you might have three kids and you know what, to make it easy so that there's not any confrontation, you're gonna name all three kids, whereas maybe –
Jason Pereira: That creates confrontation.
David Edey: – only one of 'em or two of them are really good at getting things done, and the other one might live out of the, the country or pr, you know, outa province and you need three signatures if you're gonna choose three con, coexecutors to get things done, but if you choose one particular child for example and you have to explain to the other two this is the reason why I chose them, and they have to live with that. Again, it's, you can do whatever you want with your estate, but people want, will get their nose out of joint to feel this is sense of an entitlement, but then as an executor you also have to understand that's there's legal liability for you to make sure that the estate gets settled, make sure that the taxes are being taken care of, and also to keep yourself from being, uh, litigated by beneficiaries. I advocate that you stay in contact with them. You said earlier that, you know, why's it taken so long and stuff like that. They have no idea what the job entails so that's why, you know, maybe every 2 weeks you have a Zoom meeting or you send out emails. This is what's going on. This is what I'm doing. I'm working towards getting the, uh, clearance certificate etc. etc. from, uh, CRA and just keep them in the loop. As soon as there's radio silence on behalf of the executor, that's just one reason they're saying you're up to something. You're doing something. So just keep them in the loop of what's going on so they can't come back and say well I didn't know this was going on. Just let them know, let the beneficiaries what's going on so you'll save yourself some legal liability.
Jason Pereira: And, you know, I'll even throw one other thing in there. Uh, if that child or that bene, that one of the executor's names is an American or based out of the US, uh, you could create all kinds of issues working with American tax law that you weren't counting on, so you gotta be very careful about that. Okay. So the executors, let's review. So the executor's duties as we said are to basically disperse the, distribute the proceeds of the estate and sell the estate and the person's personal affairs. Sounds straightforward enough but winding down something can be very, very complex. You know, the communication aspect during so basically I think that's also a vital component, but can you speak to, you know, any experience you have or what, you know, ideas you have for what happens when beneficiaries start getting antagonistic.
David Edey: Well it's more the communication part. In the book, there's, there's three goals to settling the estate, and I say that you first wanna make sure you file the right tax return and you pay the taxes. Then you pay the beneficiaries, and then you get the clearance certificate and close the estate. Do not start paying out to the beneficiaries just because they say well, you know, you know, I need help with my mortgage or I wanna go on vacation, I wanna buy a boat. I know this is, this amount of dollars is coming to me or I'm expecting something, can you send me the money. I advocate don't pay any beneficiaries until you've taken care of all of the debts and the, the taxes first because –
Jason Pereira: Mm hmm.
David Edey: – if it comes back that the estate owes money, try to get that money, reclaim that money from the beneficiaries –
Jason Pereira: Mm hmm.
David Edey: – that they've gotta put in to help pay the taxes. So I'm a big proponent is make sure that the taxes and debts are paid first before you start doling out any of the cash, and that's why I say it's very important to make sure you're working with an accountant that, uh, is professional, has an i, i, knows what to do when it comes to settling an estate and might be open to, from time to time, letting the ex, uh, beneficiaries know, maybe through an email, what's going on and what's taking so long because, you know, there might be, uh, some capital gains. There might be selling investments, those sorta thing like that, and I also advocate having a financial advisor that may help with the assets, managing them until they have to be doled out or if they're gonna be rolled over. Have a, an, a financial advisor as part of your, uh, your team. Most, like I said, 99 percent of executors don't have any idea of what to do, where to go, how to get started, so it's important to surround yourself with professionals. On average, and I just talked about three, the accountant, the lawyer, maybe a real estate agent, but, a financial advisor, but you could go up as high as 17 different professionals helping you settle the estate. You might need an auctioneer. You might need an estate individual so the basics is to have the accountant, the lawyer, financial advisor.
Jason Pereira: Absolutely. So, okay, and I've even gone, I mean most people tell me the same thing. Just actually don't even distribute anything until there's a clearance certificate from CRA telling you you're fully good to do so –
David Edey: Yeah.
Jason Pereira: – then, 'cause I mean this is one of the things people don't take into consideration is the liability, right. Like they're, they're liable to CRA and to the other ben, beneficiaries to do this right, and if not, they're exposing themselves to, to massive headaches.
David Edey: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Jason Pereira: All right. So let's talk about how this applies to business owners in particular. Okay. So what are the, what tips and tricks or what advice do you have for people who have incorporated businesses and how they can best be preparing executors for success?
David Edey: Well I know your show's based on business owners and you talk about how complex their lives are because, you know, it's a different animal working for yourself, working for someone else and as opposed to working for yourself, and I think since the, the pandemic it's made a lotta business owners reevaluate their business and their lives. Um, a lot of them are thinking now about, you know, what if I got sick tomorrow. What if I got sick tomorrow? What if I died? And then when it comes to estate planning and there's always those unexpected emergencies or unexpected things that might happen and could be, uh, disability, uh, divorce, a disillusionment of the, um, a company or a partner break up, so besides the estate plan it's really important that they have a succession plan, and I like to talk about the, um, I don't know if you sho, um, are familiar with Tony Shay who is –
Jason Pereira: Yeah –
David Edey: – from Zappos –
Jason Pereira: – Zappos.com.
David Edey: – .com.
Jason Pereira: Mm hmm. Had a very interesting late life experience unfortunately.
David Edey: Yeah. Well just to, 'cause it's a pretty, pretty interesting story. To break it down, he was the founder of the online shoe rate, shoe retailer, Zappos.com. 2009 Amazon bought, uh, the company for, uh, $1.2 billion. He made about $214 million. In August of 2020 he passes away. Um, he, he retires. That was in August. In November, he passes away 2 weeks before his 47th birthday and then at that point he was estimated net worth is about $850 million. Problem is he had no will, no succession plan, and when by the time they went into his home which, first it was his, his cousin that was looking after him while he was in the hospital, after he passed away the, uh, judges put his father and his brother in charge of the, his estate. They went into the house and they found thousands of poster notes of all these business deals all over the walls. Deals in Las Vegas, in Utah. He didn't have a, a net worth statement or a master list of his assets or liabilities, so the reason why I use him as an example which can be any business owner whatsoever is if with, as a business owner if you don't think about what's gonna happen to the business, you're leaving your family in chaos. You're leaving them disorganized, so you need to have a, some sort of plan in terms of what would happen if something was to happen to you. Do you have someone that's gonna look after your business? Are you going to sell the business or do you want the business sold? But, again, if that business is what has been the livelihood of the, of the family, you need to make sure that they're being, gonna be taken care of, so you need to have a succession plan in place because far too often, business owners leave their family, like I said before, in, in chaos, so they need to figure out what needs to, uh, needs to happen.
Jason Pereira: Yeah, it's a tough one unfortunately. Um, I mean it's funny it's endemic in our industry in particular too where the **** passing with no succession plans. It's, uh, you wanna destroy enterprise failure, fail to plan because it's gonna happen.
David Edey: Yeah.
Jason Pereira: So it's, it's, and I would say also the level of complexity also just increases substantially for these things, right, from a tax standpoint and from a settlement standpoint, and typically you're in Quebec, you don't have the probate or the need for dual wills like some of the provinces do.
David Edey: Right.
Jason Pereira: In Ontario, basically we, we typically plan around having two wills. One for all the corporate assets and things that don't get in probate and one for that does, so that often confuses people outa the gate is like why is there two wills. This makes, you know, it's very confusing to them, and they can very scre, easily screw up the probate application if they're not careful, but I'd say the bigger, and then, and then the last piece of it is if they're not working with the accountants and the advisors properly, that estate's gonna hit with a lot more taxes than it probably should because there's all kinds of things known as postmortem planning we get to do in Canada to basically prevent double taxation of corporations.
David Edey: But you see all of the things we're talking about, it makes sense to business owners that they should be doing this –
Jason Pereira: Mm hmm.
David Edey: – but they don't because they're not thinking about this particular subject that we're talking about. They're worried about meeting payroll. Are they being profitable? What's the market look like? How are we gonna, in their industry. How are they gonna keep the business going? How do they keep the lights on? How do they pay the employees? So what we're talking about makes sense to you and I as advisors –
Jason Pereira: Mm hmm.
David Edey: – but, uh, um, business owners don't think about it until it actually happens and that's what some of the, the biggest dangers and stresses that come to a family, especially if it's a business owner, is what's gonna happen to your family. What does your family do? So I suggest as a, as a business owner what you need to do is you need to create an estate plan. You need to create a succession plan and update it regularly and have a, a conversation with your, the lawyer and accountant 'cause it's an ongoing, ongoing piece of, uh, uh, paperwork that's gonna have to keep going all of the time. Work with the lawyer and also work with an insurance professional because it's probably gonna need some tax planning and an insurance professional will be able to help with that, but, again, this is so far off the radar of most business owners. It's common every day –
Jason Pereira: Yeah.
David Edey: – but once they do this, they're gonna feel a lot more confident in terms of what the future is gonna look like because they know that they haven't left their family lost or disorganized if something was to happen.
Jason Pereira: Oh yeah, and it's, um, it's not just lost or disorganized. I mean at the end, the other issues al, also too is that people will take care of these things but, like you said, you know, not revisit it necessarily, right, and I like to always say planning is a verb not a noun. Just because you have a will done 5 years ago doesn't mean it's valid today, and doesn't mean that the people you had the conversation with remember. Doesn't mean you remember it. I mean the number of times I've come across wills where they're like wait a sec, that's in there. I haven't spoken to that person in X number of years or oh boy we need to cut that person out and what we didn't add this person yet. That's, you know, those mistakes –
David Edey: And I'll give you a per, perfect example. A couple of weeks ago, I, uh, was visiting my mom who's passed away, it's over 10 years now, but I met, I met and saw her cousin, and she's 93 years old, and I don't know how we got onto it. She heard about the book or something, and so she left the room, came back and showed me her, uh, will. I said okay. So I'm reading through it and I'm, and I saw the, who the beneficiaries 'cause she owns a home in, uh, in the Caribbean, in, in Barbados –
Jason Pereira: Oh.
David Edey: – and I saw the name who the, who the beneficiary is, and then I said to her isn't this your sister, and then she says yeah, yeah, yeah. I says isn't your sister dead, and she went yeah. I said but you've left all your property and your assets to her, and I said this executor, have you told her where your will is and kept, and she goes no. I said well you need to update this will and take care of it, and, again, that's, comes to your point of what you're talking about. You, you need to update this paperwork as your life changes. If you're going through a divorce, there's a lot of blended families out there especially if you're a business owner. You, you wanna make sure that that, that is taken care of in your estate plan or, or anybody, um, you know, with a lotta blended families. You wanna make sure that as your life situation changes, that you make the changes also to reflect what your wishes would be inside the will.
Jason Pereira: Excellent. So, uh, any last kind of, uh, bits of advice for avoiding what you went through that we haven't covered yet?
David Edey: I would just say that you need to have an estate and will, and not only just the will, but also have a, uh, power of attorney. Mandate, in Quebec you have mandated incapacity if something was to happen –
Jason Pereira: Mm hmm.
David Edey: – that, uh, you know, you, you can be looked after if something was to happen to you, and even though you've chosen an executor, make sure you have the conversations. I say this more than often is that conversations matter, and, yes, some people it might be uncomfortable but you need to get it done because if you don't, you're just leaving that legacy and a, and a mess, and a legacy isn't what you leave people, but it's how you leave them. So do the things that you can to make sure that, like you had said at the top of the show, that they're not gonna be cursing your name when, when they're no longer, no longer around.
Jason Pereira: Thank you so much, David. Very much appreciate your time.
David Edey: Jason, it was a pleasure.
Jason Pereira: Yes, and where can people find you and your book?
David Edey: You can just go to davidedie.com and on there we've got, I've got free resources. I've got an executor checklist. I've got, uh, a quiz that you can answer. What kinda family are you? You can purchase the book at any of the online retailers or it's available at, uh, Indigo. Just, just go to davidedie.com, you can get all that information.
Jason Pereira: Excellent. Thank you, David. That was today's interview with, uh, David Edie. Hope you enjoyed that, and if I hammered, if I haven't hammered this into you enough, make sure your estates are taken care of because, uh, it is a painful mess when things do not go right. As always, if you enjoyed this podcast, please review on Apple podcast, Soundpass, Stitcher, Spotify, wherever **** podcast. Until next time, take care.
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