Corporate Wellness with Anna Spivak | E062
Solving for burnout within organizations.
In this episode, host Jason Pereira talks about a non-financial planning related topic. Today’s episode is targeted towards Corporate Wellness. Anna Spivak is invited to discuss on the stress faced by business owners and how to overcome it.
Episode Highlights:
01.22: Anna talks about her individual coaching experience. She is actively working with companies to promote overall corporate wellness.
03.05: Jason agrees to the points shared by Anna, shares few key statistics, and adds that when it comes to stress, it is not just corporate but a lot many factors from everyday life adds to it.
04.11: When dealing with corporates, Anna first likes to dig in and identify their culture, process, likes, and dislikes.
04.20: She stresses the importance of making people realize their problems, which they often consider normal.
05.13: Companies often don’t keep proper track of employee Absenteeism or Medical Issues, which affects their profits.
06.59: Jason enquires, “What are the key pieces that she delivers frequently?”
7.13: Anna talks about different approaches to dealing with companies based on the number of employees they have.
08.38: Anna talks about the benefits of group programs. She finds it beneficial because it is more like building a community. It boosts morale at the workplace.
11.00: Jason and Anna discuss the “How Covid19 has impacted the workplace” “How is Anna helping people in such a situation?”
13.15: Since Covid is all over the place, Anna stresses that it is essential to find a solution for working online.
15.33: Anna talks about the long-term toll on businesses. A lot of people don’t have the habit of sharing, but it is extremely important.
17.15: Jason reveals an interesting statistic that “62% of business owners feel depressed at least once a week.”
19.00: Anna and Jason discuss about structuring a balanced life and the importance of that.
22.49: Jason talks about divorce rates which were 50% in the US. This percentage for business owner is much greater. Like due to the stress and increased work hours. He asks Anna, “How she coaches people out of it?”
23.40: Anna shares her victory cases. She encourages people to break the walls of fear, and there are so many incredible wins on the other side of it.
27.34: Jason enquires if she has seen any difference between genders regarding wellness in the workplace.
3 Key Points:
For Anna, it all starts with an honest conversation, “What is it that they need”. All individuals are different, so she provides a customized solution based Wellness Programs.
Absenteeism, Medical Issues, Turnover Rates, Burnout Rates, Not Getting Along are some of the common factors that affect an employee’s mental health and adversely affect the company’s profits.
Jason points out 78% of business owners report a form of burnout that percentage increases. He enquires, “How do you deal with such a situation?” “What is the long-term toll of that?”
Tweetable Quotes:
“Corporate wellness has become a lot more important than before, especially due to the pandemic.” - Anna Spivak
“There is no one cookie-cutter solution for all business, different people have different problems.” - Anna Spivak
“It is important to voice out thoughts that you are going through and not keep it to yourself?” - Anna Spivak
“You can’t leave your business at the door, it is a part of you.” - Jason Pereira
“If you don’t take care of your health, it does not matter what number you crunch.” - Jason Pereira
Resources Mentioned
Anna Spivak: Email: anna@blueprinttofit.com
LinkedIn: @annaspivak, https://www.linkedin.com/in/anna-s-a76b5872/
Website: https://blueprinttofit.com/corp-en
FB: @annaspivak, https://www.facebook.com/anna.spivak.96/
Transcript: Producer: Welcome to the Financial Planning for Canadian Business Owners Podcast. You will hear about industry insights with award-winning financial planner and entrepreneur, Jason Pereira. Through the interviews with different experts, with their stories and advice, you will learn how you can navigate the challenges of being an entrepreneur, plan for success and make the most of your business and life. And now your host, Jason Pereira.
Jason Pereira: Hello and welcome. Today in the show, I have a non-financial planning-related topic, but another one regarding wellness, because as we know, and as we talked about before, the stresses on a business owner are different to the stresses on the average person. And to address that and what kind of stresses we're talking about and solutions for it, I brought Anna Spivak onto the show. She is the founder of Blueprint to Fit, and she helps high performance individuals, specifically business owners and a lot of people like them, to basically deal with the stresses on their minds and bodies that we are all subject to when we take the crazy leap that is entrepreneurship. And with that, here is my interview with Anna. Anna, thanks for taking the time.
Anna Spivak: Yeah, Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me, Jason.
Jason Pereira: Oh my pleasure. So, Anna Spivak, tell us a little bit about what it is you do.
Anna Spivak: So, I used to go to more a one-on-one, individual coaching, as far as people getting healthier with their eating habits, their physical activity habits, but more so the general habits, as far as sleeping, stress management, all those things that also are very important pieces of the puzzle as far as overall wellness.
Anna Spivak: Now, I'm focusing more on working with companies, because that's a way for me to work with larger groups and help more people. So, corporate wellness has become, I feel, a lot more important than it was before, especially with COVID, where people are more isolated, they have less connection, they see people a lot less than before. So, I think there's a very, very big opportunity to put a point on how important it is to have that culture of corporate wellness within any company, no matter the size. So, that's what I do.
Jason Pereira: Absolutely. And totally [inaudible 00:02:18] I agree with you, there's a trend towards it, because frankly there's a problem and I'm going to quote some statistics throughout this interview. But in general, if we looked at what the cost of absenteeism to businesses in Canada alone, it's estimated to be in excess of $16 billion per year. And that's a number that's been increasing.
Jason Pereira: Whereas the costs were basically somewhere between 3% and 4% back in 2012, there are studies that have shown that that number is expected to increase to between 15% to 25% by 2022, it's largely due, I think with something in the neighborhood of... it's almost three-quarters of it due specifically to issues to do with stress and the rest of it to do with disability.
Jason Pereira: When we talk about stress, it's not just workplace stress. We have the entire concept of the sandwich generation of people who are taking care of both the seniors in their lives and the kids in their lives and the stress that that brings upon them, as well as the every day-to-day life issues of their business.
Jason Pereira: So, let me get started. Let's talk about when you approach a business or when a [inaudible 00:03:18] business finds you, what's the general conversation about making them aware of the problem and then how do you help work with them to find a solution?
Anna Spivak:
So, I like the thing that you mentioned that there is a conversation with every business that I speak to, because I don't have one cookie-cutter solution for every single business. Every single company, they have different needs, they have different cultures. So, it's important to have that conversation to understand what is it that they need and, most importantly, what is it that their employees are going to participate in, that they're going to engage in, because you don't want to just throw a solution and expect people to participate. You want to understand what is it that they're going to enjoy doing and what is it that they're going to stick around long-term with.
Anna Spivak: So, for me, it's really important to first dig in and understand what's their culture. Have they ever had a wellness program? Are they interested in having one? And also make them realize that there are certain problems that they didn't even realize that they're having like, for example, absenteeism, burnout rates, turnover rates, people not getting along as well, and that, of course, affects the company's profits at the end of the day, because it's a domino effect.
Anna Spivak: So, sometimes, it could be a little bit of an unusual conversation, because some companies, they don't even keep track of these KPIs. For example, absenteeism, medical, medical cause down the line, if somebody leaves the company or somebody burns out, some companies don't even keep track of these things. And it's not because you don't keep track of it that it's not happening. So, companies are losing hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars, depending on the company size, because of all of these elements.
Anna Spivak: So, for me, it's important to have a conversation and ask these questions for them to understand that even if you may not be tracking it, these things most likely exist in your company. And based on how the conversation goes, if they're interested in potentially putting together a wellness program or having a solution that's really customized to their needs, that's when I go and do my work, I put together a few options that I feel would be the most beneficial for their teams, for their employees. Then, I present it to them. Then, they go off and figure out what is it that is within their needs, within their budget, all that stuff.
Anna Spivak: But again, it all starts with a conversation, with an honest conversation to understand what is it that they need for their culture. Individuals are different, it's like working with a person, everybody's so different, different lifestyles, different habits. Same thing with a company, it's important to understand what does that company need specifically to get them from point A to B and help their employees make progress as a group. So, that's where it starts.
Jason Pereira: So, it starts there. I mean, you mentioned the entire thing about they're not even aware of this. I mean, it's the old problem of what gets measured, gets done. Short of actually looking at statistics on a daily basis as to how many sick days we're capitalized on, or how many unpaid sick days, whatever it is. There's going to be an issue in recognizing that. I would think, if you're a company that actually does see that problem, it's probably because you've reached a critical mass issue, right?
Anna Spivak: Yeah.
Jason Pereira: No, no. So, okay. So, you've raised awareness. You worked with them. You don't have a cookie-cutter solution, it makes a lot of sense. So, give me an example of some of the more common tent-poles of the experience. You go into the company, you help them out with it. What are some of the key pieces that you deliver most frequently?
Anna Spivak: Again, it depends on the company size, because, let's say I work with a company of, let's say, 50 to 100 employees, the approach is going to be different than working with a company where there's 50,000 employees. Because the company where there's 50 to 100 employees, as an example, I'm able to customize my approach a little bit more. I'm able to give programs that are more customized to the individual. As opposed to working with a company where there's tens of thousands, we're going to focus more on group programs, group coaching sessions, but still have that contact with the people. But it's not going to be like one-on-one, because there's just so many people.
Anna Spivak: But one of the most common things that would fit pretty much any company are group programs, where people are able to move at their own pace through the content, that is very digestible, of course. Because, for me, it's important for people not to have analysis paralysis, where they see that there's a bunch of stuff to do and that they end up doing nothing. For me, I just give every week little pieces of information, little pieces of habits for them to work on and then give feedback, how did it go? How can we make it better? How can I help you struggle less? And week after week, it's like that saying where you get better 1% every single day, and at the end of the year, you went from A to B just because you did those little steps every single day. That's my approach.
Anna Spivak: But with the group programs, the great thing, and one of the most important things is, we're able to focus on building a community of people. We're not only communicating with myself, but they're also communicating between each other. They're able to build relationships outside of a work setting, build trust, and speak about things that are completely unrelated to work. These are the things that end up making the work environment much more simple, because people are a lot more comfortable with each other. They've had conversations that are completely unrelated to what they work on, on a daily basis. And this is what makes morale at work much better. It makes people be less absent, because they want to work with their colleagues.
Anna Spivak: At the end of the day, it's like I said before, it's a domino effect. You're less absent, you perform better. And that affects companies' bottom lines, which is less cost, more profits and all that good stuff that companies are looking for.
Anna Spivak: So, it's really the focus is building trust outside of a work setting and having that connection, having that communication that right now people don't have. Even before, people were not really speaking to each other, colleagues were not speaking to each other that much. I'm speaking generally, of course, outside of a work setting. But right now, with COVID, where people are, they're locked inside of their home, only Zoom calls, they don't see each other as much, that connection has been probably cut in 10. It's a fraction of what it used to be.
Anna Spivak: So, just that sense of community, that sense of being able to speak to people outside of, for example, your own kids and building relationships with people that you work with, it's priceless. It's really priceless. So, yeah.
Jason Pereira: So, how are you with the current COVID environment? How are you in helping enable and solve for that problem? Because that is a unique challenge, you're not getting together for large group sessions, the communication is an issue. And even when this is done, there's going to be plenty of people who... I saw a study the other day, for example, I think it was Salesforce published it, it was something to the effect of 20% of their staff wanting to come back full time, a full 25% of the staff wanted to remain remote full time, and the rest wanted some temporary couple of days a week presence in a physical office.
Jason Pereira: So, there's a lot of decisions being made to opt out, in a way, from that, from the social aspect, 25% of those people. But the majority, do the math on that, it was 55% wanted the office predominantly for that kind of connection. Without the ability to do that now, and maybe a diminished capacity for doing that later, how are you helping solve for that?
Anna Spivak: Well, I think that's where the possibility to have either these group calls with people, your colleagues, besides having calls with myself, I think that's where the opportunity of building that community is at. Yes, we're not going to be able to do it in person, but I think we need to find solutions on how to do it virtual. I think it's extremely important.
Anna Spivak: So, it's not only about me throwing a program at a person and saying, "Go do it on your own time by yourself." It's really building a community of people who are all working on similar goals, getting healthier, as far as their eating habits, as far as their physical activity habits, their sleeping habits, all that stuff. We're able to share wins together. We're able to encourage one another through sharing what we struggle with, through sharing our experiences, our stories, and this is where that sense of community comes into play.
Anna Spivak: It's not because we're not able to do it in person that we shouldn't find a way to do it virtually. There are tons of ways to do it virtually. So, that's my approach. I've been doing virtual coaching for the last two years, because, in my mind, I always realized everything is going towards people doing things online. And with the fact that the pandemic hit, that even solidified the fact that we need to have online solutions, because you never know what's going to happen. Even without the pandemic, with people having different lifestyles, different schedules, you cannot expect everybody to always be available at the same time.
Anna Spivak: People have kids, people have emergencies, people have families, it's important to make solutions available, but solutions that are very flexible as far as time, as far as availability and people can access them whenever is appropriate for them. Especially right now, like I said, with COVID, everything is all over the place. So, it's important to find solutions that we're able to apply virtually, more important than ever.
Jason Pereira: Excellent. So, I want to shift from the focus of the general population to the unique challenges of specifically the business owner. I'm going to start with the physical toll on these people. So, just some statistics I'm getting randomly off the internet from relatively credible sources, I believe. 78% of business owners, specifically in startups, less than two years old, report a form of burnout. And that percentage actually, believe it or not, you think early on, you're working this hard, it's going to get better. That percentage actually increases over the next eight years to 86%.
Jason Pereira: I will say that, as a something diagnosed workaholic, I put myself in that situation myself on many occasions. Talk to me about basically the detriment of that to the business owner and how you deal with them maybe differently than the rest of the population. And just the one more thing to throw in here. Yeah, let's talk about the long-term toll of that. Burnout is one thing, but when you look at the actual statistics on, say heart attack, the probability of heart attack for a business owner is markedly higher than for the general population. So, talk to me about how you prevent us from getting to the point where we actually need the triage from a surgeon.
Anna Spivak: Yeah, well, it is very unfortunate, the fact that we're still in a situation where people don't feel as comfortable sharing the fact that they're even close to a burnout. And a lot of people are not even informed on how to point out the fact that they're almost getting close to a point where it's either depression or burnout.
Anna Spivak: So, it's still like, it's not talked about enough, I find. And for business owners, again, I'm generalizing for most of us. We spend a lot of time by ourselves, and human beings are meant to interact with other people. Whenever you spend a lot of time by yourself, especially when you're doing things that are out of the ordinary, out of the box, you spend a lot of time overthinking. So, all of these things, plus the working hours, can definitely lead you to a place where you think you're not doing enough, but in reality you are very close to burning out.
Anna Spivak: As far as the impact on the business, of course, financially, it's going to have an impact on the business if especially you're doing it by yourself, but even if you have a team and you're close to burnout, you're not able to lead as well, you're not able to be as creative whenever your brain is almost on zero. So, that's where, again, the importance of having a community of people that you have access to, even one person that you could talk to, is extremely important, because it's important to voice out the things that you're going through and not to keep it to yourself.
Anna Spivak: I know a lot of people don't have that habit of sharing, of voicing out the struggles that you're going through, but it's extremely important. Because even if you might think, "Well, what is it going to help if I share all of my negativity, all the things, all the bad things that I'm going through with another person? What is it going to do? It's not going to solve anything." Yes, actually, it's a form of release to actually verbalize the things that you're going through. At least they're not only stuck in your mind.
Anna Spivak: So, that's where, again, building a community of people that may or may not be going through the same thing or similar things as you is extremely important, because at least you're going to have a source of people, one, or two, or 10, that you're going to be able to verbalize your struggles with. That's definitely going to help. It might help a little bit, but it's better than keeping it all to yourself and keeping it all stuck in your head. So, I don't know if that answers your question, but it's the generalized-
Jason Pereira: I think you're absolutely right. I think that you went a little further into that. One of the statistics I have here in front of me is a study done by the Canadian Mental Health Association and Business Development Canada, where 62% of business owners feel depressed at least once a week. As a business owner, I will say, I've had that, as I tell people all the time, entrepreneurship is almost like you're opting into a borderline schizophrenia option, because it's full of highs and lows. It's just the course of your business. You do great one day, you have a terrible day the next. When it's not something that you can just leave at the door, because you can't leave your business at the door, it's a part of you. It is an absolute part of you. It's easy to let the business' victories and defeats become your victories and defeats.
Jason Pereira: So, one of the places I want to go on this too is talking about the importance of sleep. I'm talking about this, in particular, it's a very point in time, because Goldman Sachs had been taking all kinds of shots in the media about people working 100-hour weeks, which yes, that is a thing. Going back to even when I was finishing university, you took a job in investment banking, you can expect 100-hour weeks. It took the job working for a large CPA firm, as an [inaudible 00:18:11], as a student, you could expect 60 to 80-hour weeks. They really drive these people into the ground early on.
Anna Spivak: Agree.
Jason Pereira: Just to talk about the statistics on this lately, this is actually a known fact, at least the CDC has a stat here that says, "The equivalent of being awake for 24 hours and driving is the equivalent of driving with a blood alcohol content of 0.1%, which is higher than the actual legal limit in most states and most provinces."
Anna Spivak: And most provinces.
Jason Pereira: Yeah. So, nevermind the fact that performance drop-off, we have performance drop-off in the short term, which we all, no one works well when they're tired, There's the hazard to your short-term health and there's a hazard to your long-term health, can you speak to the importance of structuring a balanced life where at least that is taken care of?
Anna Spivak: Absolutely. A lot of people think that having a structured sleeping cycle means that you have to sleep nine or 10 hours a day. It doesn't have to be that. For some people, six, seven hours is enough. But the importance is to have, for your body to expect, when are you going to sleep, when are you getting up. Because whenever your body's like, one day you're sleeping at 10:00 PM, the other day you're sleeping at 3:00 AM. Obviously, your body's going to be all over the place.
Anna Spivak: Like you said, your performance is going to be affected, your decision-making is going to be affected, the way that... Even your creativity is going to be affected, if your sleeping patterns are all over the place. Because your sleep is whenever your body is recovering not only physically, but also mentally.
Anna Spivak: So, why is that time, for some people, is considered a luxury to sleep eight or nine hours when this is when you recharge, is for example you're driving a car and the fuel is going down to almost zero. Well, you're not telling yourself, "If I fuel it up, it's a luxury for the car." No, the car needs it to run properly. The car needs it for you to not run it into the ground.
Anna Spivak: It's the same thing for your sleeping habits. You need to figure out how many hours or whatever. Like I said, for some people, five hours might be enough, other people, it's six, seven or eight. Figure out what is a proper number of our hours for yourself and try to stick to a regular schedule of going to sleep and getting up, just so that your body knows what to expect. There's a certain level of regularity for this habit. Because, like I said, if your sleeping is all over the place, one day you sleep at 8:00 PM, the other day at 4:00 AM, then you're going to have crashes during the day where you want to take a nap. Then if you take a nap in the evening, you're not going to be able to fall asleep as fast. This is a stuff that gets you all over the place as far as your performance, the work that you're able to get done, the decisions that you're able to take properly.
Anna Spivak: So, it's definitely a domino effect. The bottom line is that sleep is not a luxury, it's not an option. It's a necessity for your body to recover physically, mentally, emotionally, and for you to be able to perform at your best day in and day out. So, that's the conclusion here for the sleeping.
Jason Pereira: Yeah. I mean, it's funny. This is a topic that comes up quite frequently, because many people accuse me of never sleeping. I've actually said, "Nope." Actually, I've literally sent them screenshots from my Apple health app, where everything is tracked. And they're just like, "How is it possible you're getting seven to eight per night and doing all this?" Well, that's my own [inaudible 00:21:45].
Jason Pereira: But I mean, it's also important to recognize too, that, I think a lot, there was entire period of time where, especially in the world of startups and starting your own business where lack of sleep was seen as like almost a badge of honor, when now our biological understanding of what... Our understanding of what happens biologically to you when you sleep is far greater.
Jason Pereira: I mean, we know now that it basically helps you store new information, it actually helps flush out basically, for lack of a better term, toxins from your brain all together and help your nerve cells reorganize themselves and affects everything from restoration of your muscles and molecules in your muscles to hormones. So, the reality is, is that, it's the repair cycle for your body. If you don't have the repair cycle for your body, just like if you keep on ignoring the flashing light that says you need oil, sooner or later, that engine is going to break down.
Anna Spivak: 100%.
Jason Pereira: There's the financial toll, of course, that that takes. But the other toll that it takes is on our personal affairs, our personal lives. Where's the stat here? The divorce rates, so this is a US divorce rate, which was basically over 50% for divorces, but that rate, big surprise, for business owners is also greater, likely due to various factors such as the stress we tend to bring home as business owners and then the increased hours that we also do, but there's a real human... Besides the impact on yourself, it's the impact on everybody else around you.
Jason Pereira: So, can you share with me any kind of stories of, I'm not going to belittle them, but the really bad situations you walked into, a situation where people were literally, they kept going this way, they weren't going to survive and how you, besides the development of the network, how you coached them out of it and what the end result was, however many years it took to get there?
Anna Spivak: So, are we talking about entrepreneurs or a regular person [crosstalk 00:23:38]-
Jason Pereira: Let's talk about entrepreneurs in particular. That's the podcast, I mean, regular people are entrepreneurs too, but let's talk about entrepreneurs, it's the podcast. And specifically, give me your victory cases. What are the great success stories that you've done?
Anna Spivak: Absolutely. So, I did one-on-one coaching where it's not corporate wellness, I'm working with one-on-one individuals and that kind of situation. One of my victory cases was a woman, she was an entrepreneur and she came to me because not only she was about 30 pounds overweight, but also she felt the fact that she had gained all this weight over the years, because she put her health, physical and mental and emotional on the back burner, and she had a partner that she felt like the relationship was dwindling down because her confidence wasn't where it used to be. She really felt defeated. She didn't know what to tackle first.
Anna Spivak: So, we went step by step, because, for me, I come from an approach of bettering yourself 1% every day. I want to make the coaching very digestible so that people are able to apply without feeling overwhelmed. So, it's really step by step until we get to a place where we make more and more challenging steps forward. So, it was about, I worked with her for actually eight months, and she did lose a little over 30 pounds actually. But that was win number one.
Anna Spivak: But the ones that came afterwards were the ones that I'm looking for, where her relationship with her partner got to a place where she felt like they were the first day that they met. So, that's one of the biggest wins. She felt extremely confident about her body. Before she started working with me, she never felt confident about going to a gym. She felt like people were judging her. She felt like people were staring at her.
Anna Spivak: Once we were done working together, She could not live without going to the gym, because it became part of her lifestyle, because, well, through our work together, we were able to get her to a place where it became an organic habit to go and work out, not only for your physical health, but also to show yourself that you're able to push yourself to places where you never thought possible. Because for some people, going to the gym might be like, it's a daily thing, it's normal. For other people, they're extremely scared and everybody's got their own reasons. That's just one element that we were able to completely break through on.
Anna Spivak: The other thing with her partner. She also, once they got to a much better police where they felt like the first day that they met, they fell back in love with each other, because she found confidence in herself. Her partner saw all that confidence. Of course, that's extremely attractive. So, after almost close to the time when we were done and working together, they were planning on having a child, because they were in an extremely great place.
Anna Spivak: So, these are the wins that I am looking for whenever I work with somebody, just to me, yes, we're getting your nutrition to a better place, your physical activity to a better place, but it's all the stuff, all the winds that come afterwards, it's a complete domino effect that a lot of people don't even realize. It affects your relationship with yourself, your confidence, your relationship with your significant other, and all of these great things that, once you break through the fears and the walls that you set for yourself over the years, once you break through all of these things, there's so many amazing wins on the other side of that wall. You just have to put in the work to get there. So, it's all that domino effect that I'm looking for whenever I'm starting to work with somebody.
Jason Pereira: Have you noticed any kind of market difference between the genders when it comes to this issue, when it comes to wellness in the workplace? Is the man's worse on one or the other? Is the approach or attitudes different? How does that change?
Anna Spivak: I think women are a little bit more in touch with, as far as like... Let's talk about surface things, for example, weight and all that. I feel like there's a lot more pressure on women to be a certain shape, to be a certain size, to be a certain weight and all that. So, women, just because of the social media and all that stuff, they're a lot more aware of the things that they don't really feel comfortable with. So, that's going to push them to perhaps look for more solutions, not for everybody, but I'm generalizing.
Anna Spivak: But for men, you have to dig deeper for them to realize that there's a problem that they weren't even aware of. For women, they're aware that there's a problem, they're just not sure where to start. They're not sure how to tackle it. They're not sure how to go about it. But for men, before we even get to how do we tackle it? How do we fix it? We need to have a deeper conversation to make the person realize that there's medical problems, that there's problems as far as your relationship with your significant other, all these things that I feel women take a little bit more time to be aware of and think about.
Anna Spivak: So, again, I might be generalizing, but I've worked with a lot of women and men, and this is what I have noticed from all of the time that I've known that.
Jason Pereira: Fair enough. Anna, thank you very much. This has been enlightening and I'm grateful for you taking the time to come in. This is, frankly, as I tell everybody, when we do financial planning, is if you don't have your health, it doesn't matter what I put on a page or what numbers I crunch.
Anna Spivak: Thank you for saying that.
Jason Pereira: So, end of the day, we have to take care of ourselves. I say that with someone who's smiling, because I need to take better care of myself, but [inaudible 00:29:17] I can. so, where can people find you?
Anna Spivak: So, the best thing to do is either, I'm on Facebook, I'm on Instagram. My name is Anna Spivak, I don't know if you could put that somewhere in there, but I'll spell it out [crosstalk 00:29:30].
Jason Pereira: It'll be in the show notes. But go right on.
Anna Spivak: So, my last name, S-P-I-V-A-K, Spivak, and Anna with two Ns. The best thing to do is, to reach out to me, either Facebook or Instagram. For me, before I take the time to have a full blown conversation about what you need, blah, blah, blah, and all that stuff, I take five minutes to see if I can even help you. Because if there's no for me to help you, then there's no point in me taking up an hour of the person's time or my own time.
Anna Spivak: So, that's one way to find me. The other way, of course, is through email. So, it's anna@blueprinttofit.com, and I respond very quickly. But even from there, from the email, I'm most likely going to ask to either have a phone call or a video call for me to get to know you, you to get to know me, to see that I'm a real person and to have a quick five-minute chat for me to even see if I can even help the person or the company before we go anywhere else. So, those are the best ways to reach me.
Jason Pereira: Fantastic. Thank you so much for your time.
Anna Spivak: Thank you so much, Jason.
Jason Pereira: And that was today's episode of Financial Planning for Canadian Business Owners. I hope you enjoyed that and please, if all else, take care of yourself. There's an old saying that basically says, "There's a reason why they tell you to put the mask on yourself, before you do it to the person next to you the plane is going down, if you ain't taking care of yourself, you can't take care of anyone else." As always, if you enjoyed this podcast, please leave a review on iTunes, Stitcher, or whatever you see your podcasts and until next time, take care.
Producer: This podcast was brought to you by Woodgate Financial, an award-winning financial planning firm, catering to high net worth individuals, business owners, and their families. To learn more, go to woodgate.com. You can subscribe to this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify and SoundCloud, or find more episodes at jasonpereira.ca. You can even ask Siri, Alexa or Google Home to subscribe for you.